[Politics] Brexit

[Triggaaar]

Therein lies the mess we are in. Surely nobody voting leave genuinely thought politicians would have put peace at risk.

It turns out the ERG, Boris Johnson and Dominic Cummins really don't give a fck about peace in Northern Ireland, which is indisputably an absolutely shameful dereliction of duty.

Indeed, but they didn't look close to power back in 2016. I assumed that the UK would negotiate a fair deal with the EU. I was mistaken.

 

[dingodan]

I love all these remainers saying that MP's should do what they think is best, regardless of the people, that's how it works.

I'm sure they would have said the same if remain had won in 2016 and a Conservative government had decided to take us out of the EU anyway, because they think it's in our best interests.

The real test of whether you believe in democracy comes when you lose, and it's a test so many are failing so badly it's unreal.

 

[WATFORD zero]

You make a promise, people decide if they want that, then if they do they vote for you. That's how it is supposed to work.

& If you ask people expressly to give you an instruction, you obey that instruction. Anything else under those circumstances is an affront to democracy.

I think it's best to just leave it that there is more than one definition of democracy.

The rest of the world's and yours

But it's definitely not moaning, because you don't moan, it's just the facts

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

I love all these remainers saying that MP's should do what they think is best, regardless of the people, that's how it works.

I'm sure they would have said the same if remain had won in 2016 and a Conservative government had decided to take us out of the EU anyway, because they think it's in our best interests.

The real test of whether you believe in democracy comes when you lose, and it's a test so many are failing so badly it's unreal.

Thats how our democracy works - or what taking back control looks like.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I love all these remainers saying that MP's should do what they think is best, regardless of the people, that's how it works.

I'm sure they would have said the same if remain had won in 2016 and a Conservative government had decided to take us out of the EU anyway, because they think it's in our best interests.

The real test of whether you believe in democracy comes when you lose, and it's a test so many are failing so badly it's unreal.

Jo Johnson has quit as a Tory MP because he can't support his own brother.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

You make a promise, people decide if they want that, then if they do they vote for you. That's how it is supposed to work.

& If you ask people expressly to give you an instruction, you obey that instruction. Anything else under those circumstances is an affront to democracy.

I feel exactly the same. Last night basically finished Brexit for me personally. Others saying we are still leaving, believe it when I see it.

 

[dingodan]

I think it's best to just leave it that there is more than one definition of democracy.

The rest of the world's and yours

Well if my definition, which involves voting and that vote actually mattering, isn't how you think democracy works, then I dread to think what your definition involves.

Apparently you seem to think democracy involves voting for people who will then do what they want, regardless of what they said to convince you to elect them, and you can like it or lump it because they are in charge.

 

[Simster]

Jo Johnson GONE.

It’s been an honour to represent Orpington for 9 years & to serve as a minister under three PMs. In recent weeks I’ve been torn between family loyalty and the national interest - it’s an unresolvable tension & time for others to take on my roles as MP & Minister. #overandout

From his Twitter

This is just an example of the rats leaving the sinking ship. Jo Johnson has seen the marble rolling down the slightly tipped table and he knows where it will end up so he's just predicting it before it happens. The true Tory heroes are the ones who spoke out well ahead of this (Sir Roger Gale) and the 21 MPs who defied the whip at the expense of their own careers.

 

[pasty]

The real test of whether you believe in democracy comes when you lose, and it's a test so many are failing so badly it's unreal.

What, like expelling MP's who use their democratic right to disagree with you?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

The Johnson dynasty backs both horses.

 

[Triggaaar]

Enda Kenny did politely advise all Irish citizens living in The UK to vote remain.

If that's all that happened, then it seems a big deal wasn't made of it.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I feel exactly the same. Last night basically finished Brexit for me personally. Others saying we are still leaving, believe it when I see it.

Then i'm very sorry and can understand your frustration completely because you are being governed by a system which you obviously don't understand. I think I would probably be frustrated in your position.

If you want to read up about it, it's called Parliamentary democracy. Hope this helps

 

[Thunder Bolt]

That's not what Churchill thought.

He said

First - country, second - constituency, third - party.

 

[Simster]

I love all these remainers saying that MP's should do what they think is best, regardless of the people, that's how it works.

I'm sure they would have said the same if remain had won in 2016 and a Conservative government had decided to take us out of the EU anyway, because they think it's in our best interests.

The real test of whether you believe in democracy comes when you lose, and it's a test so many are failing so badly it's unreal.

I feel exactly the same. Last night basically finished Brexit for me personally. Others saying we are still leaving, believe it when I see it.

I bet you can't or won't answer this - but what should happen with regard to Brexit and the Northern Irish border? To me, this is the only thing that actually matter. If the country wants a hard Brexit, fine, but that simply cannot be allowed to happen in Northern Ireland.

Do you think the whole UK should leave regardless? Do you think GB should leave but NI should stay in the EU? Do you think we shouldn't have held the referendum before that question was considered? Genuinely interested, because for me that is the real crux of the issue.

 

[dingodan]

What, like expelling MP's who use their democratic right to disagree with you?

MP's voting in Parliament are not exercising their "democratic right", that is exercised when people vote in an election.

When MP's vote they are fulfilling their democratic duty. To represent the people who sent them there to represent them.

 

[Seaber]

This is just an example of the rats leaving the sinking ship. Jo Johnson has seen the marble rolling down the slightly tipped table and he knows where it will end up so he's just predicting it before it happens. The true Tory heroes are the ones who spoke out well ahead of this (Sir Roger Gale) and the 21 MPs who defied the whip at the expense of their own careers.

True, but Jo Johnson knows the narrative of the PM's own brother abandoning him is about as big as Churchill's Grandson, the Father of the House, the former chancellor being booted out.

All the more reason for the Opposition to wait and watch the Tories fall apart further from their point of view.

 

[highflyer]

I love all these remainers saying that MP's should do what they think is best, regardless of the people, that's how it works.

I'm sure they would have said the same if remain had won in 2016 and a Conservative government had decided to take us out of the EU anyway, because they think it's in our best interests.

The real test of whether you believe in democracy comes when you lose, and it's a test so many are failing so badly it's unreal.

I'm not a 'remainer'. I want a soft Brexit. That option could have carried a majority in Parliament. but May was too scared of her hard liners to do what she knew was necessary.

A Conservative Government would still have needed a majority in Parliament to take us out inh the face of a remain vote.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Oddschecker is letting me down a little at the moment.

What do you wise folk think is the most likely outcome (whether we'll leave with a soft or hard brexit, or remain)?

I'll give Meg a ring

 

[daveinplzen]

MP's voting in Parliament are not exercising their "democratic right", that is exercised when people vote in an election.

When MP's vote they are fulfilling their democratic duty. To represent the people who sent them there to represent them.

Nicolas Soames constituency voted to remain. Look where thats got him.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Pardon? What did you say about my parents?

You are being disingenuous. You normally write sensibly (even if I disagree with you). If you can't work out what I mean I give up. And because I give up it means everything is finished. FINISHED. Oh, hang on, no, that would be a completely silly thing to say.

Seen that Bojo's brother has just resigned? Bojo is behaving very badly, but it really isn't the end of politics. Nothing is 'over'. The process has gone a bit peculiar but I think we are a long way from a feral free-for-all.