[Politics] Brexit

[albion68]

It's been said so many times but the rebellion that stopped May getting her deal through wasn't Remainer-based.

My point was that the statement that rebel Tory`s were to blame for TM`s deals not going through were categorical ,there is no argument against that view. When you look at the numbers its a bit closer if the ERG voted with the Government .In TM`s second deal for example according to BBC website 391 voted against and 242 for. 75 were Tory rebels who voted against ,now if they had voted for TM`s deal 242+75 =317 ,that would mean if the vote against side lost those 75 votes they would be down to 316. 391-75 .a difference of only 1 vote . What is also part of the equation is that a handful of those 75 voted against because they wanted Remain / second referendum possibly .What it does say on the BBC website is that Dominic Grieve was quoted as saying he voted against the deal as he wanted a second referendum which is what a lot of Remain posters want .

 

[ManOfSussex]

And pray how do you know I'm 'middle class' ? Enjoy the cricket .... a very 'middle class' sport !!!!

Traditionally cricket has transcended the class system in this country - just think of The MCC touring party to Australia in the infamous bodyline series way back in 1932/1933 as an example.

I do fully accept with the near terminal decline of participation of the sport in state schools that cricket is losing it's status of covering all 3 classes in this country. This is a great shame. With the club cricket season pretty much at the half way point, you'll find a lot of players absent now with holiday commitments etc, but the blue collar clubs will fill the gaps caused by visits to the Spanish Costas and Greek Islands from the 2nd and 3rd XI's etc, whilst the West Sussex public school numptie clubs will plug the gaps with returning Oxbridge students/gap year students, ya - so club cricket is still a broad enough church in Sussex.

I'm happy to admit there were middle class people present at yesterdays game - it's a very inclusive, welcoming, friendly club and I did enjoy it, thank-you - but the predominant voices, languages and accents being spoken were standard south coast English and Urdu. (and when you get a scantily dressed barmaid covered in tattoos saying 'alright babe' it's safe to assume she's many things, but middle class 'aint one of them.)

 

[The Clamp]

Portugal, have a word with Bickerstafs down at the harbour


I don't want to
give the EU £ 37 a week thanks that's why I voted to Leave # taking back control
regards
DR

You don’t pay anything. You’re on benefits.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Traditionally cricket has transcended the class system in this country - just think of The MCC touring party to Australia in the infamous bodyline series way back in 1932/1933 as an example.

I do fully accept with the near terminal decline of participation of the sport in state schools that cricket is losing it's status of covering all 3 classes in this country. This is a great shame. With the club cricket season pretty much at the half way point, you'll find a lot of players absent now with holiday commitments etc, but the blue collar clubs will fill the gaps caused by visits to the Spanish Costas and Greek Islands from the 2nd and 3rd XI's etc, whilst the West Sussex public school numptie clubs will plug the gaps with returning Oxbridge students/gap year students, ya - so club cricket is still a broad enough church in Sussex.

I'm happy to admit there were middle class people present at yesterdays game - it's a very inclusive, welcoming, friendly club and I did enjoy it, thank-you - but the predominant voices, languages and accents being spoken were standard south coast English and Urdu. (and when you get a scantily dressed barmaid covered in tattoos saying 'alright babe' it's safe to assume she's many things, but middle class 'aint one of them.)

I agree with the vast majority of your posts but I’ve always felt cricket is way too posh for the man on the street. Would I be welcome?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Here was your prediction a couple of months before the 31st March LEAVE means LEAVE date.

I'm obviously no expert but I think there only two options and each has a 50% chance of happening :

1. May gets her deal through Parliament with some fudge wording from the EU about the backstop and some bullying of back benchers

2. We leave by default with no deal

This utterly daft idea of another referendum or 'Peoples Vote' is dead.

and a month before

Ah ..... the small businessman with an unbelievable knowledge of WTO is back. OK, so to do what you always do - I suggest you look at my previous posts to find out where I think things could have been handled differently. 23 days to the no deal you absolutely promise won't happen

I wonder if you want to make another prediction for this 31st October one. I know where you can borrow a crystal ball as she says she doesn't need it because the options haven't changed

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Traditionally cricket has transcended the class system in this country - just think of The MCC touring party to Australia in the infamous bodyline series way back in 1932/1933 as an example.

I do fully accept with the near terminal decline of participation of the sport in state schools that cricket is losing it's status of covering all 3 classes in this country. This is a great shame. With the club cricket season pretty much at the half way point, you'll find a lot of players absent now with holiday commitments etc, but the blue collar clubs will fill the gaps caused by visits to the Spanish Costas and Greek Islands from the 2nd and 3rd XI's etc, whilst the West Sussex public school numptie clubs will plug the gaps with returning Oxbridge students/gap year students, ya - so club cricket is still a broad enough church in Sussex.

I'm happy to admit there were middle class people present at yesterdays game - it's a very inclusive, welcoming, friendly club and I did enjoy it, thank-you - but the predominant voices, languages and accents being spoken were standard south coast English and Urdu. (and when you get a scantily dressed barmaid covered in tattoos saying 'alright babe' it's safe to assume she's many things, but middle class 'aint one of them.)

There was an article on the BBC the other day that detailed which professions had the highest percentage of Oxbridge graduates. Judges and MPs were unsurprisingly on the list. As were lawyers and army officers. The suprising list entry for me was professional cricketers. Well over 50% of them ( I can't remember the exact figure ) were Oxbridge graduates. So a very middle to upper class sport IMHO.

PS - the working class bar PERSON was there to work not watch the cricket so she doesn't count towards the 'working class' count.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Here was your prediction a couple of months before the 31st March LEAVE means LEAVE date.



and a month before




I wonder if you want to make another prediction for this 31st October one. I know where you can borrow a crystal ball as she says she doesn't need it because the options haven't changed

Impossible to make a prediction without knowing who the PM will be.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Impossible to make a prediction without knowing who the PM will be.

I'll ask again after Boris is officially announced then

 

[ManOfSussex]

I agree with the vast majority of your posts but I’ve always felt cricket is way too posh for the man on the street. Would I be welcome?

Yes you would. It's not all blazers and red trousers in The Long Room at Lord's - just look at the crowds at the cricket world cup going on - diverse to say the least.

There was an article on the BBC the other day that detailed which professions had the highest percentage of Oxbridge graduates. Judges and MPs were unsurprisingly on the list. As were lawyers and army officers. The suprising list entry for me was professional cricketers. Well over 50% of them ( I can't remember the exact figure ) were Oxbridge graduates. So a very middle to upper class sport IMHO.

PS - the working class bar PERSON was there to work not watch the cricket so she doesn't count towards the 'working class' count.

Professional cricket like most sports in this country apart from Football and Rugby League is, in terms of the people playing. Nothing very middle to upper class about yesterdays club game I was at. Nothing very middle to upper class about the White Rose Stand at Headingley - Yorkshire CCC renamed it from The Western Terrace because of it's reputation for housing ne'er-do-wells/drunken northerners. I do accept it's reputation as a game, but it's not Rowing.

(And the bar PERSON as you call her was a players WAG and she wouldn't being getting paid - she's just being a good clubman/clubgirl/clubperson however you want to phrase it - just the sort of publicly spirited person that amateur cricket clubs rely on.)

 

[WATFORD zero]

Impossible to make a prediction without knowing who the PM will be.

My good friend says she will make some completely impossible predictions then

1. Boris will get elected
2. He will try and 'rebrand' May's deal
3. We won't leave with 'no deal' on October 31st

(I guess that being proven correct with all her previous predictions on what would happen on every 'LEAVE means LEAVE' date so far, may have given her a completely unjustified level of confidence - we will see )

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Like it's year zero and everything has changed for ever.....

Unlike yourself those in power are more interested in the state of the economy than immigration.

They will pander to you to get your vote, but it's all bluster I'm afraid. They are already making concessions behind the scenes particularly to the farming industry.

The reality is that non EU immigration will massively increase after we leave. The Tories can bullshit you about a points system, but as we start to do independent trade deals with countries outside the EU they will use it as a bargaining chip.

This is the paradox of Brexit - Leave voters like yourself who now believe you have control over immigration. You never had and you never will.

You've simply swapped immigration from people who might consider moving home to people from less wealthy countries who probably won't.

I think it's hilarious. The right wing of the Conservative party (particularly the ERG) have no problem with immigration at all. Boris particularly fully embraces an influx of cheap labour from the EU and other countries. He has tried to cover it up, but has said so to a number of European Ambassadors.

They have other agendas (smaller state, less regulation, low taxation, removal of working hours directive) but the EU has got in the way. Fortunately for them they were able to jump on your fears of immigration and you gave them your vote.

They lied, you swallowed it. I suggest you prepare yourself emotionally for a post Brexit world because you are going to be very very disappointed.

*sigh* If any group of voters understands how duplicitous and dishonest politicians can be on the topic of immigration it's probably leave voters. False promises on reducing net migration to the 'tens of thousands'. No say on allowing unprecedented*levels of net immigration with little if any forward planning for integration and reducing pressures on local communities. Yes many of us were well aware they only prioritise economic considerations having a ready supply of cheap labour, over all other concerns. This is why one reason for voting leave was to send a democratic message that it's time to stop lying and misleading and start delivering on promises. Immigration is a benefit to this country but largescale, unplanned net immigration causes problems and tensions.

I know many remain voters also had concerns about rates of immigration but as ever your post as well as making the usual lazy assumptions exemplifies the remain argument of despair .. voting doesn't change anything. Really? Voting leave sent a shockwave to the political establishment and the i'm alright jack section of the country that ignoring voters legitimate concerns is unwise. After all that we have gone through can anyone really be stupid enough to believe continually ignoring voters wishes either by not enacting democratic results or carrying on as before is likely to end well .... (obviously the answer is yes see this thread) PM Farage anyone?



*https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/what-is-the-problem

 

[JC Footy Genius]

You're fast looking like a ranting loon ..... you make Plooks and Clampy look sane. I think I'll stick to debating with level headed folk like Thunderbolt.

The only self-identifying class warrior that regularly comes out to bat for the political class Pretty sure all the anti-English/public school student politics guff is just a cover

 

[WATFORD zero]

The only self-identifying class warrior that regularly comes out to bat for the political class Pretty sure all the anti-English/public school student politics guff is just a cover

So, what do you think is going to happen on October 31st then JC?

Or, like Westdene, would you rather not say

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The UK pays in more than it gets back in grants from the EU. Even if you add our share of the running costs it is still less than we pay in. That's because it is EU policy to pass money to the poorer member countries to try and bring an equal standard of living across all member states.

I saw this today, an excerpt from Hansard about Wigan after the IRA bombing.

How much money the city of Manchester has received from government funds to assist in the rebuilding of the city centre and the relocation of business following the Irish Republican Army bomb explosion in the city in June.

the Government gave £300,000 to the Lord Mayor's Appeal Fund for hardship relief and business relocation. They provided £150,000 towards the selection of an urban design team to plan the city centre rebuilding. Some £21.5 million has also been allocated from European funds to help with regeneration and business support and relocation.

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-...n5sDSz9yH3vEg0WPNN4xC9zM-UM8v-2DUQEufkPo42Kl0

I wonder why the mainstream media didn't publicise how much the EU had helped Wigan?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

The only self-identifying class warrior that regularly comes out to bat for the political class Pretty sure all the anti-English/public school student politics guff is just a cover

Ah, the political class again. How does the political class differ from 'politicians'? What is it, actually? Does it extend from Dennis Skinner to Bill Cash? What about my local councillor? I only ask because we had an old friend from outside the village in our kitchen last night: he walked in, took in the demographic of the half dozen people sitting around, came to a fatally-wrong conclusion and launched into a spontaneous and energetic speech in favour of Brexit. He'd chosen the wrong place for that but before he was felled by amiable fire from all directions (it really was a terrible speech) he managed to use the words 'political class' twice. I assumed they are part of the Nigel Farage songbook to persuade Brexit voters that they are being betrayed by some sub branch of the metropolitan elite, but I'd be grateful for your insight,

 

[vegster]

I saw this today, an excerpt from Hansard about Wigan after the IRA bombing.

How much money the city of Manchester has received from government funds to assist in the rebuilding of the city centre and the relocation of business following the Irish Republican Army bomb explosion in the city in June.

the Government gave £300,000 to the Lord Mayor's Appeal Fund for hardship relief and business relocation. They provided £150,000 towards the selection of an urban design team to plan the city centre rebuilding. Some £21.5 million has also been allocated from European funds to help with regeneration and business support and relocation.

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-...n5sDSz9yH3vEg0WPNN4xC9zM-UM8v-2DUQEufkPo42Kl0

I wonder why the mainstream media didn't publicise how much the EU had helped Wigan?

It does not fit the mainstream pro Brexit newspapers agenda, that's why !


I might add that a pals wife worked at pcb electrical assembly place in Goring, lots of her co-workers voted for Brexit despite their company exporting most of their output to the EU, since the vote the work has been drying up as their buyers in the EU started sourcing the same equipment from within the EU due to uncertainties in supply and cost factors. The company has had to downsize and is re-locating to Poland now.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Political class - I've always just seen it as useful phrase used by populists like Farage to stoke the narrative that the 'establishment' or 'liberal metropolitan elite' are just in it for themselves. Us and them. Very useful with Brexit as it plays toward the tendencies of the paranoid conspiracy theorist believers on the leave side. To go all Jilly Goolden, I think I'm also getting a little subtle scent of anti-intellectualism with the phrase too, not as full blown and full bodied a bouquet as 'experts', but just a hint of it on the palate.

Don't be in any doubt though, and as a cricket, class and elitism conversation broke out earlier coincidentally, because you'll always find the British ruling class/political class/establishment/elite at the cricket. Despite what they may say, they know who are they really are

 

[golddene]

On all the news last night. Good news hurt you does it. Spending billions to build the new generation electric cars here in the UK. Unlike the Japanese who are moving all their production back home to safeguard jobs there. As also Ford are cutting 12k jobs in Germany to safeguard jobs in America and so it goes on

No! Good news does not hurt me, I welcome it! The poster I was responding to has history of only posting either insignificant news stories or great headlines with sober truth in the detail! You seem to be "in the know" so maybe you could supply some genuine improvements to our economy and advantages instilled to the majority of our population your no deal or TM's deal Brexit will bring and please do not state after 50 years or so, as according to the latest CC forecasts in twenty years we won't need to care either way, I thank you for in advance for any response as I fear you probably will not. In response to your jibe concerning news reports, I'm afraid that with the final choice of new PM and constant depressing headlines concerning all reporting on your Brexit I have given up tuning in, this is especially so as I retire with my private pensions in weeks and subsequently the future should be left to those who it affects most, I just honestly believe and have always thought this way, that being part of a European community and trading, making laws and being part of a wider Europe far outweighs this insular future your Brexit offers. I could be wrong but I can only go on history and history tells me the past forty years have been pretty good for most of our nation and if you are willing to work hard and make personal sacrifices rewards are obtainable in the future in the EC, isolation as a country not so much.

 

[daveinplzen]

The only self-identifying class warrior that regularly comes out to bat for the political class Pretty sure all the anti-English/public school student politics guff is just a cover

The political class, anti English public school? Pretty funny from people when Brexiteers are fawning over an Eton educated, career Tory.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Great week

Jaguar Land Rover: £1bn investment
Stroud Metal: New £6m factory
AE Aerospace: New factory
Rolls-Royce: £85m MoD contract
Sage: £300m investment, 500 jobs
BP Chargemaster: New factory
Modern Tyres: £5.6m factory
JCB: Record £75m order


https://mobile.twitter.com/Jefferson_MFG/status/1147251975345573889

And this one as well.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/tvr-says-work-start-soon-new-welsh-factory