[Politics] Brexit

[McTavish]

A balanced response. I think opinions vary on whether it is a net positive (depends on survey, link attached)

https://fullfact.org/immigration/how-immigrants-affect-public-finances/

Question - is there a point at which you would change your mind that free movement continues to be a good thing?

Absolutely, but I think it is more likely that the reason would be a net out-flow of migrants rather than a net in-flow. Historically countries that attract large numbers of migrants due to the strength of their economies tend to do much better than those that don't.

 

[Two Professors]

Well my in my wife's department two thirds of her nurses are EU workers

Congratulations-are the other third British,or did you count them as EU anyway? (we are still in for a few more days)

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Crikey, you need to come over to the Bognor area.

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and East Anglia. The poster should spend a day in a typical school up here and speak with teachers trying to deal with the number of nationalities/languages in their classes. The amount of housebuilding to cater for EU migrants would surprise him and well paid jobs are few and far between for anybody.

 

[JCL666]

This is just doctors.

http://www.gmc-uk.org/doctors/register/search_stats.asp

On the current register there are over 270000. Of those, 30000 received their qualification from an EEA (exc UK) institution. However that does not necessarily indicate their nationality.

For example Kypros Nicolaides who people might recognise due to being AMAZING (but also on TV) is originally from Cyprus, but studied and works in the UK.


Although it is difficult to ascertain EXACTLY how many doctors are from the EU and trained in the UK, or who originated and trained in the EU, my guess (from these stats) is A LOT.

I haven't looked at other health workers. Sorry about that.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

Congratulations-are the other third British,or did you count them as EU anyway? (we are still in for a few more days)

no sorry i should have said 2/3 are mainland europe, the other third are mostly british but some non-EU too

 

[hans kraay fan club]

You should stand outside Stechford Junior and Infants at chucking out time,and try and spot any British kids-good luck with that!

Just for clarification, how will I 'spot' which are British kids?

How will I differentiate between the British ones and the EU immigrants, by sight?

Apologies in advance for making assumptions, but knowing that part of Birmingham reasonably well (The Stechford Cascades is a long term client of mine) I'm going to guess that a large proportion of the 'non-British' kids, are not from the EU at all.

The Leave campaign (in general - not aiming this at you personally) has constantly and very deliberately muddied all manner of immigration issues, to the point that a good number of Leave voters are pinning their votes on completely false hopes of affecting things that should not even be a part of this debate. Things like Farage's disgusting poster with the line of Syrian refugees.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

and East Anglia. The poster should spend a day in a typical school up here and speak with teachers trying to deal with the number of nationalities/languages in their classes. The amount of housebuilding to cater for EU migrants would surprise him and well paid jobs are few and far between for anybody.

depends which part of east anglia i suppose, but the part i'm in (although cambridge border really) doesn't have a high number of EU children. Also 1/4 of my department are EU (not british) of which none have kids but are paid on or above the national average wage so fairly well paid

 

[Jim in the West]

I reckon about 2% may have changed their minds. It's not worth it really.

Agreed - I can't imagine ANYONE has been the remotest bit influenced by the "discussion" over the past 800+ pages. Some of it has been quite amusing though - and (for my part) I've found it mildly informative from time to time. Hopefully we can all get back to being mates on Friday, regardless of the outcome....

 

[Two Professors]

Just for clarification, how will I 'spot' which are British kids?

How will I differentiate between the British ones and the EU immigrants, by sight?

Apologies in advance for making assumptions, but knowing that part of Birmingham reasonably well (The Stechford Cascades is a long term client of mine) I'm going to guess that a large proportion of the 'non-British' kids, are not from the EU at all.

The Leave campaign (in general - not aiming this at you personally) has constantly and very deliberately muddied all manner of immigration issues, to the point that a good number of Leave voters are pinning their votes on completely false hopes of affecting things that should not even be a part of this debate. Things like Farage's disgusting poster with the line of Syrian refugees.

I wholeheartedly agree with you about that poster-totally disgusting.
Differentiating is quite easy really.If you know the area reasonably well,you realise there is a large population originating from the sub-continent,muslim and hindu,with a few buddhists thrown in for variety.These people have settled and interacted with the community extremely well and a lot of their children attend the local schools and speak native english.The EU arrivals are not so nice and even expect translators rather than learn the language,and are easy to spot by their extremely poor parking/driving and drug abuse.They are also extreme litter louts,and leave the area looking like a tip.Perhaps you don't have to put up with this type of behaviour where you come from,but the advent of some European countries has certainly lowered the tone around here.Rant over

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

depends which part of east anglia i suppose, but the part i'm in (although cambridge border really) doesn't have a high number of EU children. Also 1/4 of my department are EU (not british) of which none have kids but are paid on or above the national average wage so fairly well paid

sure, I would imagine some councils are more proactive than others. The area I am talking about is Colchester up to Thetford. There is a huge strain on school places and quite a lot of social need that can be difficult to deal with without quite large increases in spending. Perhaps the current level of migration is a good thing. I just don't know where if anywhere we draw the line and I haven't heard the answer as yet.

 

[5ways]

Brexiters: Do NOT trust experts!

*Beckham comes out for Remain*

Brexiters: What does he know? He’s not an expert.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Brexiters: Do NOT trust experts!

*Beckham comes out for Remain*

Brexiters: What does he know? He’s not an expert.

oh, well I'm a 'Brexiter' but I don't remember saying that. I must have done I guess.

 

[heathgate]

I wonder exactly what the point is that the OP is trying to make... what relevance is it to the debate when BJ simply talks about control and numbers, not race or religion?..... I am from Russian/Spanish gypsy heritage... that doesn't stop me having a view of migration... and not one that can be closely aligned with Adolf either...




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[5ways]

oh, well I'm a 'Brexiter' but I don't remember saying that. I must have done I guess.

https://next.ft.com/content/3be49734-29cb-11e6-83e4-abc22d5d108c

Britain has had enough of experts, says Gove

 

[Steve in Japan]

Brexiters: Do NOT trust experts!

*Beckham comes out for Remain*

Brexiters: What does he know? He’s not an expert.

No you're quite right. Ex-footballers are quite high on my list of "go to" sources on the referendum. Once Joey Essex gives his verdict I'll be ready to vote.

 

[5ways]

No you're quite right. Ex-footballers are quite high on my list of "go to" sources on the referendum. Once Joey Essex gives his verdict I'll be ready to vote.

I've also got this list of Nobel prize winners in economics if you're interested:

Economic issues are central to the UK referendum debate. We believe that the UK would be better off economically inside the EU. British firms and workers need full access to the single market. In addition, Brexit would create major uncertainty about Britain’s alternative future trading arrangements, both with the rest of Europe and with important markets like the USA, Canada and China. And these effects, though one-off, would persist for many years. Thus the economic arguments are clearly in favour of remaining in the EU.
George Akerlof
Kenneth Arrow
Angus Deaton
Peter Diamond
James Heckman
Eric Maskin
James Mirrlees
Christopher Pissarides
Robert Solow
Jean Tirole

 

[hans kraay fan club]

No you're quite right. Ex-footballers are quite high on my list of "go to" sources on the referendum. Once Joey Essex gives his verdict I'll be ready to vote.

You're choosing to miss his point.

Hundred / Thousands of the world's leading experts in economics, politics, law, business, the environment and medicine have come out and explained why they think it is in Britain's best interests to stay within the EU. The Leave campaign has scoffed, and rubbished their views ("We've had enough of 'experts'" / "Well, they would say that, wouldn't they?"). If you are not going to listen to learned / trained / qualified people in their respective fields, then you may just as well listen to the views of David sodding Beckham, because frankly, you* are CHOOSING to be ignorant.

*not actually YOU - but those dismissing 'experts'.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

https://next.ft.com/content/3be49734-29cb-11e6-83e4-abc22d5d108c

Britain has had enough of experts, says Gove

oki doki. So that's Gove's opinion. And ? You do know that we all have an equal say in this referendum don't you ?

 

[Steve in Japan]

You're choosing to miss his point.

Hundred / Thousands of the world's leading experts in economics, politics, law, business, the environment and medicine have come out and explained why they think it is in Britain's best interests to stay within the EU. The Leave campaign has scoffed, and rubbished their views ("We've had enough of 'experts'" / "Well, they would say that, wouldn't they?"). If you are not going to listen to learned / trained / qualified people in their respective fields, then you may just as well listen to the views of David sodding Beckham, because frankly, you* are CHOOSING to be ignorant.

*not actually YOU - but those dismissing 'experts'.

So anybody voting leave is in fact ignorant and can only be doing so because they are thick? Okay.......

My generalisation is a bit kinder. Here goes. Anybody voting Remain is doing so primarily because of the economic uncertainty and a nagging concern that they personally will be worse off financially. They will NOT be doing it because they approve of the EU, its methods, its organisation or its aims for the future. In this case it really is all about the money.

 

[Eeyore]

So anybody voting leave is in fact ignorant and can only be doing so because they are thick? Okay.......

My generalisation is a bit kinder. Here goes. Anybody voting Remain is doing so primarily because of the economic uncertainty and a nagging concern that they personally will be worse off financially. They will NOT be doing it because they approve of the EU, its methods, its organisation or its aims for the future. In this case it really is all about the money.

Correct. But ultimately this is what dictates most people's votes in elections.