[Politics] Brexit

[Stat Brother]

They've got her over a ****ing barrel.

Anyone in particular?
Or when you say 'they' do you actually mean 'everybody'?

 

[CHAPPERS]

So the DUP, and only the DUP, are discussing the role of Stomont within the backstop?

edit: Oh hang on, Hammond is involved, it's another bung.

 

[vegster]

I agree. The bleat that May is a closet Remainer is odd. There's no evidence.

As a government minister with a very nice job she gave Remain reticent support at a time when it was assumed Remain would win.

When it didn't, she transformed her position. Her decision to lead the departure process is acceptable but the way she did it wasn't.

Brexit Means Brexit, references to saboteurs, calculated talk about the citizens of nowhere. When her scheme to shove the whole leaving process through with little recourse to Parliament was challenged in the courts she stayed mute about foul attacks on our independent judiciary. Her only reaction was to call another election when it became clear that the HoC was more moderate than she was. She drew up her red lines, made no efforts to reach across to the huge minority (now perhaps a majority) who wanted a different way.

I really try not to demonise anyone, but Theresa May appears to be a ghastly woman. I am ashamed of her.

Can't argue against any of that.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The problem with the above is that it's nonsense. Nothing that any remainer has said or believes has caused the current mess.

1) The country voted out (tick)
2) Both major parties put leaving in their manifesto (tick)

The problem is that Parliament can't agree on what leaving looks like and it's specifically the LEAVERS who are arguing.

If you want to vent your anger - vent it at the hard line Brexiteers in the Tory party.

You couldn't make it up. Brexiteers like yourself blaming remain supporters outside parliament.

Wouldn't that be hilarious if we end up staying in. Who Killed Brexit ? Answer: Rees Mogg.

Good grief …. that might be one of the silliest things (tough competition) I have ever read on this thread. You do know the PM voted Remain right?

The problems and why we have ended up here are numerous.

Just to point out it was Cameron (Remainer) who promised the referendum.

No planning for what would happen if there was a leave vote because of the arrogance of Remainers Cameron/Osborne.

Remainer Cameron running off leaving others to clear up the mess closely followed by Osborne.

The Conservative party with a majority of Remain MP's settled on a Remainer to lead the Brexit process yes supported by the main Brexiteers but I will come to that later. Many Remainers are honourable and respect democracy believing the result should be enacted on the basis of the campaign commitments (take back control - leave) so having a Remainer in charge not an issue at this point.

PM May (Remainer) set out the governments Brexit policy in the Lancaster house speech with clear red lines which is why the Brexiteers were initially supportive of May. The government and cabinet at this point seemed united.

PM May (Remainer) triggered article 50 but were we ready? (no)

The House of Commons is largely full of Remain MP's so unrepresentative of the wider electorate many of them view the referendum vote as a disaster to be mitigated /diluted, some even want to ignore it. But none of them in a parliament with a wafer thin majority helped cause this mess ... ?

PM May (Remainer) decided to call a general election for understandable reasons to be fair (see above) but instead of increasing the Tories majority she spectuarly f'd it up losing the governments majority.

Btw I bet nearly every Remainer on this thread voted for parties who were more likely to be luke warm or hostile to Brexit and hoped to limit the government's majority/negotiating hand (well done take a bow).

PM May (Remainer) now relies on DUP causing more problems.

PM May (Remainer) begins to diverge from Lancaster house red lines and Tory party manifesto making concession after concession with very little in response, Brexiteers in cabinet/government begin to resign.

Corbyn (a life long 'principled' Brexiteer voting Remain), the Labour Party leadership with a vast majority of Remainer MP's are only interested in getting to another general election. Every decision re Brexit is about destabilising the government, not about national interest/finding consensus. No impact on the mess we find ourselves in though right?

More Brexiteers in government resign as the PM (Remainer) further dilutes the red lines Olly Robbins (Remainer) is running the negotiations.

Remainer cabinet ministers openly challenge the PM in a newspaper article and renege on Tory party electoral commitments.(No deal is better than a bad deal) Many threaten to resign. This has no impact on the mess though right?

It's most of the Tory MP Brexiteers who are the only ones in parliament standing up for commitments made by the Leave side during the referendum and in the manifesto they were elected on. Suggesting they should just rubber stamp any sh*t deal no matter how bad just to stop the remainers in parliament reversing Brexit is a very poor argument as it clearly shows Remainers are helping to cause the mess!

Just to say that Brexiteers aren't blameless but they haven't been running the show and never have been ... no matter how many people pretend otherwise.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Good grief …. that might be one of the silliest things (tough competition) I have ever read on this thread. You do know the PM voted Remain right?

The problems and why we have ended up here are numerous.

Just to point out it was Cameron (Remainer) who promised the referendum.

No planning for what would happen if there was a leave vote because of the arrogance of Remainers Cameron/Osborne.

Remainer Cameron running off leaving others to clear up the mess closely followed by Osborne.

The Conservative party with a majority of Remain MP's settled on a Remainer to lead the Brexit process yes supported by the main Brexiteers but I will come to that later. Many Remainers are honourable and respect democracy believing the result should be enacted on the basis of the campaign commitments (take back control - leave) so having a Remainer in charge not an issue at this point.

PM May (Remainer) set out the governments Brexit policy in the Lancaster house speech with clear red lines which is why the Brexiteers were initially supportive of May. The government and cabinet at this point seemed united.

PM May (Remainer) triggered article 50 but were we ready? (no)

The House of Commons is largely full of Remain MP's so unrepresentative of the wider electorate many of them view the referendum vote as a disaster to be mitigated /diluted, some even want to ignore it. But none of them in a parliament with a wafer thin majority helped cause this mess ... ?

PM May (Remainer) decided to call a general election for understandable reasons to be fair (see above) but instead of increasing the Tories majority she spectuarly f'd it up losing the governments majority.

Btw I bet nearly every Remainer on this thread voted for parties who were more likely to be luke warm or hostile to Brexit and hoped to limit the government's majority/negotiating hand (well done take a bow).

PM May (Remainer) now relies on DUP causing more problems.

PM May (Remainer) begins to diverge from Lancaster house red lines and Tory party manifesto making concession after concession with very little in response, Brexiteers in cabinet/government begin to resign.

Corbyn (a life long 'principled' Brexiteer voting Remain), the Labour Party leadership with a vast majority of Remainer MP's are only interested in getting to another general election. Every decision re Brexit is about destabilising the government, not about national interest/finding consensus. No impact on the mess we find ourselves in though right?

More Brexiteers in government resign as the PM (Remainer) further dilutes the red lines Olly Robbins (Remainer) is running the negotiations.

Remainer cabinet ministers openly challenge the PM in a newspaper article and renege on Tory party electoral commitments.(No deal is better than a bad deal) Many threaten to resign. This has no impact on the mess though right?

It's most of the Tory MP Brexiteers who are the only ones in parliament standing up for commitments made by the Leave side during the referendum and in the manifesto they were elected on. Suggesting they should just rubber stamp any sh*t deal no matter how bad just to stop the remainers in parliament reversing Brexit is a very poor argument as it clearly shows Remainers are helping to cause the mess!

Just to say that Brexiteers aren't blameless but they haven't been running the show and never have been ... no matter how many people pretend otherwise.

Face the facts - You backed the wrong horse in 2016, it's dead now but all you're doing is keep flogging it and play the blame game.

You were sold a pup, pure and simple. It's just like if you've voted for The Monster Raving Loony Party in a General Election and upon them actually winning it, you now aren't happy that their manifesto pledges and all their promises aren't deliverable because they were just pure fantasy - I'm afraid Brexit itself is the problem, nothing else. It was, as Imagination once sang, just an illusion. and you fell for it.

 

[Stat Brother]

Good grief …. that might be one of the silliest things (tough competition) I have ever read on this thread. You do know the PM voted Remain right?

The problems and why we have ended up here are numerous.

Just to point out it was Cameron (Remainer) who promised the referendum.

No planning for what would happen if there was a leave vote because of the arrogance of Remainers Cameron/Osborne.

Remainer Cameron running off leaving others to clear up the mess closely followed by Osborne.

The Conservative party with a majority of Remain MP's settled on a Remainer to lead the Brexit process yes supported by the main Brexiteers but I will come to that later. Many Remainers are honourable and respect democracy believing the result should be enacted on the basis of the campaign commitments (take back control - leave) so having a Remainer in charge not an issue at this point.

PM May (Remainer) set out the governments Brexit policy in the Lancaster house speech with clear red lines which is why the Brexiteers were initially supportive of May. The government and cabinet at this point seemed united.

PM May (Remainer) triggered article 50 but were we ready? (no)

The House of Commons is largely full of Remain MP's so unrepresentative of the wider electorate many of them view the referendum vote as a disaster to be mitigated /diluted, some even want to ignore it. But none of them in a parliament with a wafer thin majority helped cause this mess ... ?

PM May (Remainer) decided to call a general election for understandable reasons to be fair (see above) but instead of increasing the Tories majority she spectuarly f'd it up losing the governments majority.

Btw I bet nearly every Remainer on this thread voted for parties who were more likely to be luke warm or hostile to Brexit and hoped to limit the government's majority/negotiating hand (well done take a bow).

PM May (Remainer) now relies on DUP causing more problems.

PM May (Remainer) begins to diverge from Lancaster house red lines and Tory party manifesto making concession after concession with very little in response, Brexiteers in cabinet/government begin to resign.

Corbyn (a life long 'principled' Brexiteer voting Remain), the Labour Party leadership with a vast majority of Remainer MP's are only interested in getting to another general election. Every decision re Brexit is about destabilising the government, not about national interest/finding consensus. No impact on the mess we find ourselves in though right?

More Brexiteers in government resign as the PM (Remainer) further dilutes the red lines Olly Robbins (Remainer) is running the negotiations.

Remainer cabinet ministers openly challenge the PM in a newspaper article and renege on Tory party electoral commitments.(No deal is better than a bad deal) Many threaten to resign. This has no impact on the mess though right?

It's most of the Tory MP Brexiteers who are the only ones in parliament standing up for commitments made by the Leave side during the referendum and in the manifesto they were elected on. Suggesting they should just rubber stamp any sh*t deal no matter how bad just to stop the remainers in parliament reversing Brexit is a very poor argument as it clearly shows Remainers are helping to cause the mess!

Just to say that Brexiteers aren't blameless but they haven't been running the show and never have been ... no matter how many people pretend otherwise.

Luckily there's plenty of guilt over this clusterf**k to spread around.
I don't think anyone will get out of the mess unscathed.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

THIS

It's not Remainers, Theresa May, the EU, The Russians, Tony Blair, Uncle Tom Cobley or anyone else to blame.

This total and complete f*** up is down to the leave voters and them alone.

How can anyone feign surprise at this when they have been told this is exactly what would happen all along

Yes after an unexpected leave vote we all knew Cameron would resign immediately, that a Remainer would become PM, that the PM would call a general election and lose a majority despite a 20 point poll lead, that the DUP would become a big factor etc etc... yes all entirely predictable

 

[Stat Brother]

So the DUP, and only the DUP, are discussing the role of Stomont within the backstop?

edit: Oh hang on, Hammond is involved, it's another bung.

I've been somewhat naive over the DUP (there's only so much I can concentrate on, at any one time)

That is until a comedian said the other day:-

'The Tory government going cap in hand, on bended knee, to the DUP is exactly the same as a Labour government desperately asking Sinn Fenn for help'.


That rather struck a nerve.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Luckily there's plenty of guilt over this clusterf**k to spread around.
I don't think anyone will get out of the mess unscathed.

Very true, our entire political class have been found wanting. Interesting to see how it all plays out at the next General election.

 

[Stat Brother]

Yes after an unexpected leave vote we all knew Cameron would resign immediately, that a Remainer would become PM, that the PM would call a general election and lose a majority despite a 20 point poll lead, that the DUP would become a big factor etc etc... yes all entirely predictable

In fairness the first one was entirely predictable and the rest is rank stupidly falling into place.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Face the facts - You backed the wrong horse in 2016, it's dead now but all you're doing is keep flogging it and play the blame game.

You were sold a pup, pure and simple. It's just like if you've voted for The Monster Raving Loony Party in a General Election and upon them actually winning it, you now aren't happy that their manifesto pledges and all their promises aren't deliverable because they were just pure fantasy - I'm afraid Brexit itself is the problem, nothing else. It was, as Imagination once sang, just an illusion. and you fell for it.

Mmmmm so much for democracy then if voting to leave the EU is just a fantasy ....

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Good grief …. that might be one of the silliest things (tough competition) I have ever read on this thread. You do know the PM voted Remain right?

The problems and why we have ended up here are numerous.

Just to point out it was Cameron (Remainer) who promised the referendum.

No planning for what would happen if there was a leave vote because of the arrogance of Remainers Cameron/Osborne.

Remainer Cameron running off leaving others to clear up the mess closely followed by Osborne.

The Conservative party with a majority of Remain MP's settled on a Remainer to lead the Brexit process yes supported by the main Brexiteers but I will come to that later. Many Remainers are honourable and respect democracy believing the result should be enacted on the basis of the campaign commitments (take back control - leave) so having a Remainer in charge not an issue at this point.

PM May (Remainer) set out the governments Brexit policy in the Lancaster house speech with clear red lines which is why the Brexiteers were initially supportive of May. The government and cabinet at this point seemed united.

PM May (Remainer) triggered article 50 but were we ready? (no)

The House of Commons is largely full of Remain MP's so unrepresentative of the wider electorate many of them view the referendum vote as a disaster to be mitigated /diluted, some even want to ignore it. But none of them in a parliament with a wafer thin majority helped cause this mess ... ?

PM May (Remainer) decided to call a general election for understandable reasons to be fair (see above) but instead of increasing the Tories majority she spectuarly f'd it up losing the governments majority.

Btw I bet nearly every Remainer on this thread voted for parties who were more likely to be luke warm or hostile to Brexit and hoped to limit the government's majority/negotiating hand (well done take a bow).

PM May (Remainer) now relies on DUP causing more problems.

PM May (Remainer) begins to diverge from Lancaster house red lines and Tory party manifesto making concession after concession with very little in response, Brexiteers in cabinet/government begin to resign.

Corbyn (a life long 'principled' Brexiteer voting Remain), the Labour Party leadership with a vast majority of Remainer MP's are only interested in getting to another general election. Every decision re Brexit is about destabilising the government, not about national interest/finding consensus. No impact on the mess we find ourselves in though right?

More Brexiteers in government resign as the PM (Remainer) further dilutes the red lines Olly Robbins (Remainer) is running the negotiations.

Remainer cabinet ministers openly challenge the PM in a newspaper article and renege on Tory party electoral commitments.(No deal is better than a bad deal) Many threaten to resign. This has no impact on the mess though right?

It's most of the Tory MP Brexiteers who are the only ones in parliament standing up for commitments made by the Leave side during the referendum and in the manifesto they were elected on. Suggesting they should just rubber stamp any sh*t deal no matter how bad just to stop the remainers in parliament reversing Brexit is a very poor argument as it clearly shows Remainers are helping to cause the mess!

Just to say that Brexiteers aren't blameless but they haven't been running the show and never have been ... no matter how many people pretend otherwise.

I'm sorry, but that's ludicrous. Most of your points are predicated on the notion that May has been behaving as a Remainer for the past 30+ months and that is simply not the case for the reasons I mentioned above and plenty of others have done elsewhere. Apart from a few lukewarm weasel words by the career-conscious politician under discussion during the referendum campaign - since completely outweighed by her words since - where is your evidence?

Your logic in place is pure Comic Cuts. What, for example, is the relevance of Mrs May being a Remainer (as you claim) in her decision to call the 2017 election? Unless you're claiming that her intention in calling the election was to obliterate her party's majority in order to improve the chances of Brexit not happening there is no relevance.

You'll be saying next that Boris Johnson's fatuous record as Foreign Secretary was part of a Remain plot on the basis that he was once Remain-inclined.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I've been somewhat naive over the DUP (there's only so much I can concentrate on, at any one time)

That is until a comedian said the other day:-

'The Tory government going cap in hand, on bended knee, to the DUP is exactly the same as a Labour government desperately asking Sinn Fenn for help'.


That rather struck a nerve.

We're already getting that Festival of Britain thing held in 2022 because The DUP wanted it that year, so never mind them getting magic money tree fruit to vote for The Withdrawal Agreement, I wonder if it'll be also announced that July 12th will now be a UK wide public holiday and that supermarkets here can only now open between 1pm and 6pm on a Sunday so not to clash with church services as happens in Northern Ireland?

 

[Stat Brother]

You'll be saying next that Boris Johnson's fatuous record as Foreign Secretary was part of a Remain plot on the basis that he was once Remain-inclined.

No that was a plot to get him out of cabinet but not sack him.
Give him a job for which he's a chocolate fireguard and let nature do the rest.

Who'd have thunk 'talking to foreigners' would be the way to go!!!

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I'm sorry, but that's ludicrous. Most of your points are predicated on the notion that May has been behaving as a Remainer for the past 30+ months and that is simply not the case for the reasons I mentioned above and plenty of others have done elsewhere. Apart from a few lukewarm weasel words by the career-conscious politician under discussion during the referendum campaign - since completely outweighed by her words since - where is your evidence?

Your logic in place is pure Comic Cuts. What, for example, is the relevance of Mrs May being a Remainer (as you claim) in her decision to call the 2017 election? Unless you're claiming that her intention in calling the election was to obliterate her party's majority in order to improve the chances of Brexit not happening there is no relevance.

You'll be saying next that Boris Johnson's fatuous record as Foreign Secretary was part of a Remain plot on the basis that he was once Remain-inclined.

I am pointing out that someone who voted remain has made numerous decisions impacting the Brexit process which is unsuprising as she is PM but it appeared to have escaped clapham gulls attention.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

The House of Commons is largely full of Remain MP's so unrepresentative of the wider electorate many of them view the referendum vote as a disaster to be mitigated /diluted, some even want to ignore it. But none of them in a parliament with a wafer thin majority helped cause this mess ... ?
.

Voted in by UK public (they voted to Leave)

 

[Stat Brother]

I am pointing out that someone who voted remain has made numerous decisions impacting the Brexit process which is unsuprising as she is PM but it appeared to have escaped clapham gulls attention.

Do you genuinely think an outspoken pro-Brexit PM wouldn't have also made a complete mess out of this whole concept?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Do you genuinely think an outspoken pro-Brexit PM wouldn't have also made a complete mess out of this whole concept?

I think someone that genuinely believes leaving the EU is best for our country (maybe not Boris then) is more likely to make it succeed.

 

[lawros left foot]

If leaving was so popular with the majority of people ( not just those who voted in the referendum) in this country, why have UKIP never won a parliamentary seat?
Surely, the best way of ensuring we leave, was to elect a party who’s sole raision d’etre was to leave the EU. Farage failed to win a constituency six times, in seats that were hand picked for their Euro scepticism.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Yes after an unexpected leave vote we all knew Cameron would resign immediately, that a Remainer would become PM, that the PM would call a general election and lose a majority despite a 20 point poll lead, that the DUP would become a big factor etc etc... yes all entirely predictable

Although I understand that this wasn't what you thought you were voting for, I'm afraid this is exactly what you voted for. It's your fault for not thinking through the implications of your actions, nobody else's.

We all make mistakes and but still refusing to take responsibility for what you've done is a bit of a piss-take