[Politics] Brexit

[Triggaaar]

We work out what we want, trigger A50, then have two years to come to a deal with the EU.

Yeah, so we decide we want everything, with cherries on top, trigger Article 50, ask the EU, and they say no, which puts us basically where we are. Top plan.

 

[Triggaaar]

We could have had a plan that had been agreed by the cabinet, so they could at least present a United front to the EU negotiators, instead, we got Mays deal, developed by, seemingly, her on the back of a fag packet, that when Johnson and Davis saw it, they promptly resigned.

Yeah, Johnson would have stood by her if the deal was good, right? And claiming that it's on the back of a fag packet is just nonsense hyperbole.

 

[clapham_gull]

Yeah, Johnson would have stood by her if the deal was good, right? And claiming that it's on the back of a fag packet is just nonsense hyperbole.

Quite obviously not written on the back of a fag packet. Irrespective of it's merits it was probably designed by experienced civil servants knowing what the EU would accept. The backstop was not designed by the EU, it was designed by us

But it's the only one.

1) Where is the Rees Moggs deal ?
2) Where is the David Davies deal ?
3) Where is the Boris Johnson deal ?

They don't exist because they want to crash out and the world is laughing.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Quite obviously not written on the back of a fag packet. Irrespective of it's merits it was probably designed by experienced civil servants knowing what the EU would accept. The backstop was not designed by the EU, it was designed by us

But it's the only one.

1) Where is the Rees Moggs deal ?

Will do any dirty trick to get *no deal*

2) Where is the David Davies deal ?
Still waiting for the German Car makers to 'ride to our rescue'. Voted for May's Deal this week !

3) Where is the Boris Johnson deal ?
Super-Dooper-Canada++++++. Didn't get any further than the deal title, though. Now Steve Bannon's mate.

They don't exist because they want to crash out and the world is laughing.

Not great.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

So here we are. Our fate in the hands of the EU 27. Let's hope Spain doesn't piss about with Gibraltar and Tusk gets the 27 to agree to the extension in a week's time.

Beyond that, Parliament has already voted down leaving with No Deal, voted down May's Withdrawal Agreement and voted down a Second Referendum. It's also voted down a no confidence vote in May's government and she herself won a Tory leadership confidence vote.

Where the f*ck this leaves us is anyone's guess. We have political paralysis. I've never known anything like this in my 50 years, it's beyond comprehension that it could have gone this badly wrong, it's a bloody disgrace and a f*cking mess.

It all leaves us with *no deal* in just 14 days.


The extension is unlikely, the anti- *no deal* vote toothless.


There is probably also a 3rd and 4th attempt to get May's deal through instead.


But the ERG actively want *no deal*, which leaves the whole country somewhat stuffed.


14 days to stockpile for dystopia, use it well.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

Regardless which side you’re on, a constant theme of this saga is if you don’t agree with the way I voted then you’re stupid, an idiot etc. Which is the primary reason it’s turned toxic. Anyone still banding that insult around 2 years on really hasn’t learnt anything and arguably, with delicious irony, makes them more than IMO.

That's because this whole vote forced the population into two distinct ideological groups. Each side sees the other as the polar opposite to them and everything which is wrong with the modern world.

 

[BBassic]

But the EU said they would not discuss the terms of Brexit until after we had triggered Article 50, so how do you suggest we worked out a deal on our own?

Oh! I had honestly forgotten that. It's been a topsy turvy couple of years.

 

[wellquickwoody]

She is clearly a leaver. Why would she negotiate a way to LEAVE, be leader of a party who pledged to LEAVE?

From a remainer, you really do need to leave the debate. May was/is a confirmed remainer, who stood for the role of PM and tried/failed to deliver Brexit. End of discussion on this front.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

From a remainer, you really do need to leave the debate. May was/is a confirmed remainer, who stood for the role of PM and tried/failed to deliver Brexit. End of discussion on this front.

May was a remainer. I remember her campaigning for remain before the referendum. Under the circumstances I think May has done the best job she can. I'm not happy about things being a leaver, but there is FA I can do about it. I will say this, most other people would have cracked months ago and walked off the job, not her. She is one tough woman.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yeah, so we decide we want everything, with cherries on top, trigger Article 50, ask the EU, and they say no, which puts us basically where we are. Top plan.

Wanting everything with cherries on was, in part, the very arrogance which wasted about a year or more of negotiations. Now that the powers realise they will actually have to negotiate a deal, and it won’t be a they-need-us-more-than-we-need-them cakewalk something more realistic might be achieved.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

May was a remainer. I remember her campaigning for remain before the referendum. Under the circumstances I think May has done the best job she can. I'm not happy about things being a leaver, but there is FA I can do about it. I will say this, most other people would have cracked months ago and walked off the job, not her. She is one tough woman.

Negotiating a deal Parliament emphatically doesn’t want isn’t tough.....it’s blind abject failure and utter waste of everyone’s time.

 

[Stat Brother]

Negotiating a deal Parliament emphatically doesn’t want isn’t tough.....it’s blind abject failure and utter waste of everyone’s time.

True but it would seem that as nobody could deliver this deal (because we didn't vote on an deal, we voted on a concept) everybody's time would have been wasted no matter who was on the hot seat.

A la [MENTION=22389]bashlsdir[/MENTION] I end up with some respect for May because she has stuck at an impossible job surrounded by hatstands all sticking the boot in all of the time.

 

[nicko31]

The problem with the above is that it's nonsense. Nothing that any remainer has said or believes has caused the current mess.

1) The country voted out (tick)
2) Both major parties put leaving in their manifesto (tick)

The problem is that Parliament can't agree on what leaving looks like and it's specifically the LEAVERS who are arguing.

If you want to vent your anger - vent it at the hard line Brexiteers in the Tory party.

You couldn't make it up. Brexiteers like yourself blaming remain supporters outside parliament.

Wouldn't that be hilarious if we end up staying in. Who Killed Brexit ? Answer: Rees Mogg.

Brexiteers should be thanking Gina Miller they are having a say at all, if was down to TM her deal would have already been passed with an executive order, parliament would have been sidelined completely

The here and now is Brexiteers are the biggest threat to Brexit itself, its been the case for a while now. The lies pedaled by Farage, Johnson and Davis supercharged by Russian money could never be delivered and they are struggling to face reality.

The reality is we are about to have the one sided relationship with EU the Brexiteers always said we had.

Last chance for the Brexiteers next week to decide if they want Brexit at all. They won, they need to get over it

 

[Stat Brother]

[tweet]1106469562785107968[/tweet]

 

[Gwylan]

May was a remainer. I remember her campaigning for remain before the referendum.

You have a false memory there: she was barely seen during the campaign. She said she voted for Remain (which I'm sure she did) but didn't take part in any public debate. She did give a speech to a private audience at Goldman Sachs, setting out the case for Remain but she was pretty low key. In fact, she was nicknamed Submarine because she was so rarely seen.

The same, of course, could be said for Corbyn. In fact, he was even more low-key.

 

[highflyer]

I have changed my mind on one thing at least.
Previously I thought referendums were probably a bad idea. I now think they are definitely a bad idea.

We have a parliamentary democracy for a reason. It can certainly be improved (I want to see some form of PR), but nonetheless it has proved to be the least worst option. It needs to start functioning and sort this out.

There are much more important issue than Brexit that are being ignored while this fiasco rolls on.

For what it is worth, I voted remain, but I had to think about it. My prefered outcome at this stage would be very soft Brexit. But I don't want a second referendum and if there is one i probably won't vote.

This should have been a nuanced, complex discussion, weighing national sovereignty against the benefits of cooperation and the need for a strong, socially progressive block in a globalised economy. Weighing national economic advantage against the impact on distribution. Developing a better understanding how the economy works and for who. Understanding how the EU actually works. Understanding the Good Friday Agreement and what it means to people in Ireland.

Instead it has become a simplistic, divisive, antogistic sh*tfest, where 'my enemies enemies are my friends' and anyone that voted to leave is stupid and racist. That is the real tragedy in my opinion. And a second referendum will most likely make it worse not better. So i'm out.

 

[schmunk]

The same, of course, could be said for Corbyn. In fact, he was even more low-key.

Low-key - Norse God of mischief...

 

[WATFORD zero]

I have changed my mind on one thing at least.
Previously I thought referendums were probably a bad idea. I now think they are definitely a bad idea.

We have a parliamentary democracy for a reason. It can certainly be improved (I want to see some form of PR), but nonetheless it has proved to be the least worst option. It needs to start functioning and sort this out.

There are much more important issue than Brexit that are being ignored while this fiasco rolls on.

For what it is worth, I voted remain, but I had to think about it. My prefered outcome at this stage would be very soft Brexit. But I don't want a second referendum and if there is one i probably won't vote.

This should have been a nuanced, complex discussion, weighing national sovereignty against the benefits of cooperation and the need for a strong, socially progressive block in a globalised economy. Weighing national economic advantage against the impact on distribution. Developing a better understanding how the economy works and for who. Understanding how the EU actually works. Understanding the Good Friday Agreement and what it means to people in Ireland.

Instead it has become a simplistic, divisive, antogistic sh*tfest, where 'my enemies enemies are my friends' and anyone that voted to leave is stupid and racist. That is the real tragedy in my opinion. And a second referendum will most likely make it worse not better. So i'm out.

Sorry, your post was too long, nuanced and complex and I lost interest.

I only got to the second paragraph before i felt compelled to shout 'NO DEAL' at the top of my voice.

Scared the sh*t out of the cat

 

[Dave the OAP]

You have a false memory there: she was barely seen during the campaign. She said she voted for Remain (which I'm sure she did) but didn't take part in any public debate. She did give a speech to a private audience at Goldman Sachs, setting out the case for Remain but she was pretty low key. In fact, she was nicknamed Submarine because she was so rarely seen.

The same, of course, could be said for Corbyn. In fact, he was even more low-key.

The really interesting thing with corbyn was his reaction when asked about the EU on the last leg....if you remember he was very vague ..and his body language showed as people reported at the time that he was a leaver. In the past he was very critical about the European state...which is fair enough as a lot of people thought the same.

So we had May hiding away and corbyn trying to do the same.

Whereas the so called big hitters like Johnson and farridge were paraded in front of busses promising things there was no way they could deliver


A metaphor fr what was to come and we seeing now.

If the Italian facist vetos against an extension then that would be farridge's legacy.

 

[CHAPPERS]

So the chief whip and half the cabinet voted against the PM and we're going to carry on with this farce are we?