[Politics] Brexit

[The Rivet]

Farage is getting absolutely roasted by Andrew Neil on BBC1

Doesn't everyone get roasted by him?

 

[pb21]

Doesn't everyone get roasted by him?

Well good point, but he has just absolutely destroyed Farage, he will be in therapy for a good while after this, looks like he might even break down on air

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

The remain lot may bang the hell on about economy but rest assured this country is in real danger,real danger of being overrun......if you like the UK as it is now...vote leave.

There will be so many EU citizens in this country in future years that this country will lose it's identity,it's soul,the heart.

The landscape will be ruined the place will be an overcrowded pale shadow of it's former self.

A can of worms is about to be opened soon and although we will come through it,it will not be without problems serious disorder,a dropping of standards...

Why? THEY ARE ONLY HERE FOR THE MONEY YOU REMAIN FOOLS..

 

[Steve in Japan]

Well good point, but he has just absolutely destroyed Farage, he will be in therapy for a good while after this, looks like he might even break down on air

That is proof that you see what you want to see in these interviewsituations (or "one sees" if you prefer)

In my opinion Farage performed noticeably better than Osborne. Osborne was brutally found wanting on some key questions which we know are crucial to voters....completely screwed up the immigration question because he simply has no answer and doesn't see it as a problem.

Farage tripped up on trade as he will, but still at least had some answers.

IMHO as I say.

 

[Steve in Japan]

For what's it's worth (and it might not be worth much), latest poll has Out at 55%
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...oris-johnson-nigel-farage-david-a7075131.html

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

For what's it's worth (and it might not be worth much), latest poll has Out at 55%
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...oris-johnson-nigel-farage-david-a7075131.html

I don't pay attention to polls.....to be honest they are like pre season and England friendlies,a bit misleading,i think it will go REMAIN..have poste voted out.

 

[dingodan]

That is proof that you see what you want to see in these interviewsituations (or "one sees" if you prefer)

In my opinion Farage performed noticeably better than Osborne. Osborne was brutally found wanting on some key questions which we know are crucial to voters....completely screwed up the immigration question because he simply has no answer and doesn't see it as a problem.

Farage tripped up on trade as he will, but still at least had some answers.

IMHO as I say.

I was going to say the same, AN was certainly hard on him, but he's generally been hard on everyone, and to be fair when allowed to explain himself NF was able to answer the tough questions. You can't say NF is a political spin man, whether you agree with him or not, he answers the questions and isn't really decietful like most bog standard politicians are. That's actually been quite characteristic of the difference between leave and remain, remain has been filled with politicians (and others) who are used to being in spin mode, leave has largely been argued by people with a little more personal integrity. I think that will have quite a large affect on how people are influenced in this debate, strangely maybe even more so than the content of the arguments.

 

[Steve in Japan]

I don't pay attention to polls.....to be honest they are like pre season and England friendlies,a bit misleading,i think it will go REMAIN..have poste voted out.

As I said in my post, may not be worth much. Still if it gives Cameron another sleepless night eh?

 

[Steve in Japan]

I was going to say the same, AN was certainly hard on him, but he's generally been hard on everyone, and to be fair when allowed to explain himself NF was able to answer the tough questions. You can't say NF is a political spin man, whether you agree with him or not, he answers the questions and isn't really decietful like most bog standard politicians are. That's actually been quite characteristic of the difference between leave and remain, remain has been filled with politicians (and others) who are used to being in spin mode, leave has largely been argued by people with a little more personal integrity. I think that will have quite a large affect on how people are influenced in this debate, strangely maybe even more so than the content of the arguments.

I like Andrew Neil. He doesn't hold back and is normally very well prepared. As I posted somewhere else, I would have liked him in charge at the ITV debate last night.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

As I said in my post, may not be worth much. Still if it gives Cameron another sleepless night eh?

That would be good,i've gone right of David......will not be voting any other party tho,but will be not voting in future general election in protest.

 

[melias shoes]

For what's it's worth (and it might not be worth much), latest poll has Out at 55%
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...oris-johnson-nigel-farage-david-a7075131.html

Fingers crossed.

 

[dingodan]

I like Andrew Neil. He doesn't hold back and is normally very well prepared. As I posted somewhere else, I would have liked him in charge at the ITV debate last night.

I don't know, he's good for a one on one interview, but in a debate I think you let people speak, it's the role of other debaters to push back, it's too difficult for a moderator to do that evenly IMO.

I also think Andrew Neil is ever so slightly biased, as the BBC is generally. Not deliberately and maybe unknowingly but it is there. I remember watching him interviewing the guy who made the Brexit movie. He called out the BBC for it's bias and AN didn't seem very impressed, was a little bit mocking of him, and I'm certain the discussion was supposed to be a little longer than it was in the end. Generally on the Daily Politics you do see what he is describing, a kind of subtle hinting of negativity towards the out campaign which is not also equally dished out to remain. Again, I'm not saying it's deliberate, after all people on TV are only human, and nobody can be truely objective, everyone has their own prejudices and opinions.

Maybe I am being unfair to Andrew Neil, here is the discussion.

 

[Steve in Japan]

I don't know, he's good for a one on one interview, but in a debate I think you let people speak, it's the role of other debaters to push back, it's too difficult for a moderator to do that evenly IMO.

I also think Andrew Neil is ever so slightly biased, as the BBC is generally. Not deliberately and maybe unknowingly but it is there. I remember watching him interviewing the guy who made the Brexit movie. He called out the BBC for it's bias and AN didn't seem very impressed, was a little bit mocking of him, and I'm certain the discussion was supposed to be a little longer than it was in the end. Generally on the Daily Politics you do see what he is describing, a kind of subtle hinting of negativity towards the out campaign which is not also equally dished out to remain. Again, I'm not saying it's deliberate, after all people on TV are only human, and nobody can be truely objective, everyone has their own prejudices and opinions.

Maybe I am being unfair to Andrew Neil, here is the discussion.

Had not seen that. AN is a bit snide at times, a bit too much of a smart arse, but he really only got going when the director suggested BBC EU bias.

I don't see him as biased when I watch him. He is spiky and contradictory but I don't see much bias.

On your point about moderating debates effectively. I kind of agree but on Thursday I thought we got 40 seconds of Remain spiel, 40 seconds of (contradictory) Leave spiel, and repeat ad nauseum. The Audience need a bit of help.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

I still haven't voted on this poll as I honestly haven't made up my mind. Off the top of my head.....

Pros of staying in.

Economically it makes sense. 50% of our exports go into the EU
I believe that being in the EU has helped workers rights, although an oversupply of labour has kept wages down.
Sharing of information, particularly with regards to criminals and their movements.
Free movement of labour, and ability to settle in any member state.

Pros of leaving.

EU is a fundamentally undemocratic organisation. Too many decisions make by unelected officials.
We contribute more than we get back.
Uncontrolled immigration means huge pressure on public services.
Housing crises. There are simply too any people coming here.
Osborne suggests leaving will bring house prices down by 10-18%. Good.
Sovereignty. We need our Government to be able to make our laws.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

I still haven't voted on this poll as I honestly haven't made up my mind. Off the top of my head.....

Pros of staying in.

Economically it makes sense. 50% of our exports go into the EU
I believe that being in the EU has helped workers rights, although an oversupply of labour has kept wages down.
Sharing of information, particularly with regards to criminals and their movements.
Free movement of labour, and ability to settle in any member state.

Pros of leaving.

EU is a fundamentally undemocratic organisation. Too many decisions make by unelected officials.
We contribute more than we get back.
Uncontrolled immigration means huge pressure on public services.
Housing crises. There are simply too any people coming here.
Osborne suggests leaving will bring house prices down by 10-18%. Good.
Sovereignty. We need our Government to be able to make our laws.

If in doubt vote Remain......personally i'm out.

 

[dingodan]

Had not seen that. AN is a bit snide at times, a bit too much of a smart arse, but he really only got going when the director suggested BBC EU bias.

I don't see him as biased when I watch him. He is spiky and contradictory but I don't see much bias.

On your point about moderating debates effectively. I kind of agree but on Thursday I thought we got 40 seconds of Remain spiel, 40 seconds of (contradictory) Leave spiel, and repeat ad nauseum. The Audience need a bit of help.

Well I admit I am biased, but my thoughts on the debate were that it's hard to argue with nonsense and fallacy and that's all we heard from remain. I thought leave did a pretty good job and genuinely tried to engage the public with information, but it was a one way debate and one way slagging match.

I have certainly seen Andew Neil tear into the remain side when they say things which aren't true, he's not by any means a shill. He's probably as even handed as any human being can be and it is great to see him giving people a grilling. BBC News anchors/correspondents are pretty bad for bias though, they really annoy me sometimes. Arguably they should be the most objective of all BBC presenters, but they are really not.

And yes, to be fair he didn't just suggest bias, he called the BBC the propaganda arm of the EU, and true or not, you can't blame AN for being offended at that

Is there going to be another debate before the referendum? I kind of enjoyed the last one.

 

[dingodan]

I still haven't voted on this poll as I honestly haven't made up my mind. Off the top of my head.....

Pros of staying in.

Economically it makes sense. 50% of our exports go into the EU
I believe that being in the EU has helped workers rights, although an oversupply of labour has kept wages down.
Sharing of information, particularly with regards to criminals and their movements.
Free movement of labour, and ability to settle in any member state.

Pros of leaving.

EU is a fundamentally undemocratic organisation. Too many decisions make by unelected officials.
We contribute more than we get back.
Uncontrolled immigration means huge pressure on public services.
Housing crises. There are simply too any people coming here.
Osborne suggests leaving will bring house prices down by 10-18%. Good.
Sovereignty. We need our Government to be able to make our laws.

For me, the difference is that the important Pros of leaving are important and timeless principles, self government, Sovereignty and Democracy, which are more important than any other kind of benefit, in the long term. I can't help feeling that you don't give up your freedom for any benefit, while you are free and self determined you can always try to improve your circumstances, if you don't have freedom and self determination, what really do you have of any worth?

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

For me, the difference is that the important Pros of leaving are important and timeless principles, self government, Sovereignty and Democracy, which are more important than any other kind of benefit, in the long term. I can't help feeling that you don't give up your freedom for any benefit, while you are free and self determined you can always try to improve your circumstances, if you don't have freedom and self determination, what really do you have of any worth?

Exactly........agree..

 

[Steve in Japan]

Is there going to be another debate before the referendum? I kind of enjoyed the last one.

Oh I hope so. Can't wait for some more jiggerypokery.

 

[dingodan]

Oh I hope so. Can't wait for some more jiggerypokery.

Jiggerypokery is my favorite kind of pokery.