[Politics] Brexit

[Westdene Seagull]

What does that really mean? The bottom line is you voted UKIP and it is the UKIP bullshit that has led us to where we are now, i.e. f*cked.

Actually it was the Tories that offered the referendum and implemented it. It was then lies from both camps that got us the result that came. Lies from leavers about the benefits of leaving and lies from remainers about the consequences of leaving. And then finally we are where we are today because of the complete incompetence of May.

 

[pb21]

I was in favour of a referendum on exiting the EU so I voted UKIP in the last GE but one to keep the pressure on the Tory promise of offering one. Farage says some things I agree with but others that I don't - much the same as Corbyn and May. And there in lies the issue here - some people appear to think this is a black and white issue - that if you want to leave you must agree with Farage completely. I don't and never have. I haven't changed my mind at all.

Yet you think it

irrelevant

that not everyone who voted leave agrees with Farage, or who anyone else who voted for Brexit for that matter

 

[The Clamp]

Actually it was the Tories that offered the referendum and implemented it. It was then lies from both camps that got us the result that came. Lies from leavers about the benefits of leaving and lies from remainers about the consequences of leaving. And then finally we are where we are today because of the complete incompetence of May.

Cameron only offered the referendum to appease the hard right in his cabinet and to win back the far right who were voting UKIP. Farage and UKIP certainly had a hand in the mess we are in now. Both Cameron and Farage then went wee wee wee all the way to put their trotters up in the south of France.

It remains to be seen whether the remain campaigns "lies" come to be. Your lot's lies were proved to be proppganda almost immediately.

 

[golddene]

Actually it was the Tories that offered the referendum and implemented it. It was then lies from both camps that got us the result that came. Lies from leavers about the benefits of leaving and lies from remainers about the consequences of leaving. And then finally we are where we are today because of the complete incompetence of May.

And the intransigence of mainly Leave voters who even though they now realise they had been lied to or "conned" still refuse to consider the prospect of a re-run to either confirm their wishes or alter their stance (vote differently) using the well worn " democracy card". What is democratic about that?

 

[The Clamp]

And the intransigence of mainly Leave voters who even though they now realise they had been lied to or "conned" still refuse to consider the prospect of a re-run to either confirm their wishes or alter their stance (vote differently) using the well worn " democracy card". What is democratic about that?

Quite. They are too blinkered and proud to even realise that a second referndum could actually be the only way they get a Brexit they want. As for me, it's a no to second referendum , I don't thnk remain will win and the hard right brexiteers will be unbearable. Reverse it or crash on.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Actually it was the Tories that offered the referendum and implemented it. It was then lies from both camps that got us the result that came. Lies from leavers about the benefits of leaving and lies from remainers about the consequences of leaving. And then finally we are where we are today because of the complete incompetence of May.

My view is the Tories offered the EU referendum to see off the UKIP threat - it wouldn't have happened without UKIP, and UKIP wouldn't have got popular without Farage. He was the catalyst.

People's positions are now entrenched but on the Remain side one of the biggest own goals was Osborne's Emergency Budget claptrap, because that has given every Leaver the excuse that there were "lies on both side", as if the lies were somehow in parity. Most of these "lies" were bundled up and branded "Project Fear" which, as we're seeing with the real prospect of No Deal and the government's sectorial analyses and guidance papers show, is not "Project Fear" but simply the harsh realities of No-Deal Britain.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

That wasn't on the ballot slip

You may want it, but that wasn't what was voted for. (I may have mentioned at the time, and very occasionally since, that you didn't know what you were voting for )

leave means leave in all forms , that's what people voted for EXCEPT YOU'RE SO IN DENIAL of it you've completely brainwashed yourself
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

JUST A REFRESHER , WE'RE ON OUR WAY
https://youtu.be/U8mn-_AutuY
regards
DR

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Feel free to admit you were wrong Wellquickwoody, as I have done. Click on the link. I honestly didn't know we had those powers.

It's been fairly well known for a while now that we have these powers. It's been discussed on here in depth but dismissed by the hardcore leavers as fake news every time. Not sure why it's suddenly got traction now.

Yes, there's a couple of posters on here who scream LIAR when something contradicts what they have been told by Farage.

You should try and remember that

You see, Simster. I rest my case.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

You see, Simster. I rest my case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuyklNb6TOY
regards
DR

 

[Pavilionaire]

It would have been, except it transpires that we did actually have the power to prevent this influx and chose to do nothing about it. So actually, it really isn't the fault of the EU as much as our useless ignorant governments who were happy to see the cheap labour to keep middle classes happy at the expense of low skilled here.

You are correct that we've had to power to restrict / reduce immigrant numbers here for some time but did not exercise those powers, and as far as the Tories are concerned that has to be a direct failing of the Home Secretary from 2010-16.

As for Labour, they never made the same noises about immigration being out of control or having to come down to the tens of thousands. For me this is where it gets interesting because with 1.5 million unemployed but 3 million working EU immigrants those number suggest without that mass immigration our economy would have had insufficient labour to function properly.

My theory is that whilst the last 20 years net inward migration has increased the population and lacked any sort of control it was probably essential to rebalance our economy between those of working age and those above it. Indeed, it wouldn't surprise me if we needed another 500,000 working age people paying the taxes required to pay for the NHS.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

you are correct that we've had to power to restrict / reduce immigrant numbers here for some time but did not exercise those powers, and as far as the tories are concerned that has to be a direct failing of the home secretary from 2010-16.

As for labour, they never made the same noises about immigration being out of control or having to come down to the tens of thousands. For me this is where it gets interesting because with 1.5 million unemployed but 3 million working eu immigrants those number suggest without that mass immigration our economy would have had insufficient labour to function properly.

My theory is that whilst the last 20 years net inward migration has increased the population and lacked any sort of control it was probably essential to rebalance our economy between those of working age and those above it. Indeed, it wouldn't surprise me if we needed another 500,000 working age people paying the taxes required to pay for the nhs.

leaving the EU will do that though
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

How can they undercut the local labour force? We have a minimum wage. This country decided this was an acceptable amount to be paid, so you can not undercut as any worker would get paid at least this. Are you suggesting we need higher minimum wages? Also, don't the Tories say unemployment is at a low? So, how does that tally with all the immigrants taking the jobs away?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/16/true-human-cost-5-pound-hand-car-wash-modern-slavery
regards
DR

 

[Gwylan]

Indeed, it wouldn't surprise me if we needed another 500,000 working age people paying the taxes required to pay for the NHS.

Which is why immigration from non-EU countries has gone up this year, it's to fill the shortfall as EU immigration has declined

 

[Pavilionaire]

Which is why immigration from non-EU countries has gone up this year, it's to fill the shortfall as EU immigration has declined

You couldn't make this stuff up.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The Doller Auction Game - Boris is a philandering yoghurt pot

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/present...ilandering-yoghurt/?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

So you are against somthing that delievers the democratic will of the people? Why is that? I thought we had to respect the referendum result and that leave means leave. If leave means leave the conditions are irrelevant, leaving is the only part.

THE CONDITIONS ARE NO SINGLE MARKET, NO FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT,NO CUSTOM UNION, NO PAYING INTO THE EU, THAT'S LEAVING, anything different is remaining in some form
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Sounds like an issue with an employer not adhering to government standards. Should be made to conform or be shut.

incredible
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

You couldn't make this stuff up.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45340595
regards
DR

 

[The Clamp]

THE CONDITIONS ARE NO SINGLE MARKET, NO FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT,NO CUSTOM UNION, NO PAYING INTO THE EU, THAT'S LEAVING, anything different is remaining in some form
regards
DR

Clueless.