[Politics] Brexit

[beorhthelm]

...thought better of it, carry on.

 

[daveinplzen]

Basically, we are heading towards a potential shit-fest, because of a referendum that was full of, lets me kind and say, mistruths. Leavers know that. However, they 'won' that vote, so now Leavers prefer potential disaster for the country rather than hurting their own emotional notions over 'sovereignty' Which we never lost in the first place. Brilliant.

 

[wellquickwoody]

This is why the EU itself is partly culpable for the Brexit vote. People like [MENTION=15363]Plooks[/MENTION] are being ignorant towards the native working classes if they can't see that what you say has been a problem ever since the iron curtain came down.

The idea of people moving where the money is, is nothing new - where cheap labour comes in, sleeps 20 to a house for a short period of time with the idea of sending the money back home. It's what "Auf Wiedersen Pet" was all about in the 80s. This isn't a problem when the free market area covers broadly similar economies, but that isn't the case with Eastern European economies. They were dreadfully poor by our standards and most are still way behind us, which has meant that we're getting cheap labour flooding our labour market, and it isn't reciprocated.

A simple and reasonable solution would have been to implement restrictions on free movement from poorer EU countries to richer ones until their economies caught up. Unfortunately, Call Me Dave framed it all wrong and with a selfish spin, and ended up with no concessions at all. To be honest, he'd left it too late anyway. Had he convinced other EU nations of the danger that unskilled labour in wealthy economies would become increasingly dissatisfied with the EU if this was allowed to continue, he might have convinced more that something needed to change.

Well written Sir.

 

[The Clamp]

Basically, we are heading towards a potential shit-fest, because of a referendum that was full of, lets me kind and say, mistruths. Leavers know that. However, they 'won' that vote, so now Leavers prefer potential disaster for the country rather than hurting their own emotional notions over 'sovereignty' Which we never lost in the first place. Brilliant.

Yup. Even though nobody is getting anything remotely resembling what they thought they were voting for they still defend Brexit. Some of history’s biggest mistakes were fuelled by pride.

 

[Simster]

Well written Sir.

It would have been, except it transpires that we did actually have the power to prevent this influx and chose to do nothing about it. So actually, it really isn't the fault of the EU as much as our useless ignorant governments who were happy to see the cheap labour to keep middle classes happy at the expense of low skilled here.

 

[Mtoto]

Well written Sir.

Wellquickwoody, why do you feel the UK deserved "concessions" when we never bothered to use the significant powers to manage FoM that were there from day one?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ric..._13120104.html

 

[The Clamp]

Wellquickwoody, why do you feel the UK deserved "concessions" when we never bothered to use the significant powers to manage FoM that were there from day one?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ric..._13120104.html

And leave voters claim they weren't conned. The perfect mark, one that will be too embarrassed to admit they have been conned.

 

[Simster]

Wellquickwoody, why do you feel the UK deserved "concessions" when we never bothered to use the significant powers to manage FoM that were there from day one?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ric..._13120104.html

Feel free to admit you were wrong Wellquickwoody, as I have done. Click on the link. I honestly didn't know we had those powers.

 

[The Clamp]

Feel free to admit you were wrong Wellquickwoody, as I have done. Click on the link. I honestly didn't know we had those powers.

It's been fairly well known for a while now that we have these powers. It's been discussed on here in depth but dismissed by the hardcore leavers as fake news every time. Not sure why it's suddenly got traction now.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It's been fairly well known for a while now that we have these powers. It's been discussed on here in depth but dismissed by the hardcore remainers as fake news every time. Not sure why it's suddenly got traction now.

Indeed. I was accused of lying and being dishonest by one particular poster, when I posted it.




In the meantime, talking of being dishonest.
[tweet]1045621238167752704[/tweet]

 

[Simster]

It's been fairly well known for a while now that we have these powers. It's been discussed on here in depth but dismissed by the hardcore remainers as fake news every time. Not sure why it's suddenly got traction now.

"hard core remainers"?

Well I certainly missed it, and didn't know we had the powers.

 

[The Clamp]

Indeed. I was accused of lying and being dishonest by one particular poster, when I posted it.




In the meantime, talking of being dishonest.
[tweet]1045621238167752704[/tweet]

Yes, there's a couple of posters on here who scream LIAR when something contradicts what they have been told by Farage.

 

[The Clamp]

"hard core remainers"?

Well I certainly missed it, and didn't know we had the powers.

Beg your pardon, Hardcore leavers. My mistake.

Yeah, it's been brought up on this thread many times.

 

[Pavilionaire]

The EU already believes that the UK already has something of its own "Deal" because it is not in the Euro, it is not in the Schengen area and Cameron DID manage to extract the concession that the UK got an opt-out of to put a brake on further political union and he got the 4-year"emergency brake" on in-work benefits too.

Seen from the EU perspective, the UK already had a unique status in the EU and this is why Cameron didn't get any further when he sought concessions prior to the Brexit vote. He was a fool for not making our unique status clear to the UK electorate or for pointing out the concessions we'd already gained.

This is why there was never going to be the sufficient goodwill shown from the EU necessary for a "cake and eat it" deal. From their point of view they'd already given us the earth.

 

[The Clamp]

The form of democracy we have in the UK is not serving the UK very well at the moment.


"It is a fact that they have professionally squandered Winston Churchill’s legacy.”
— The European Parliament’s Brexit negotiator Guy Verhofstadt to MEPs

 

[wellquickwoody]

Wellquickwoody, why do you feel the UK deserved "concessions" when we never bothered to use the significant powers to manage FoM that were there from day one?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ric..._13120104.html

Fair point. But I still blame those people in position of influence, those who want to appear so bang on trend, and those who actually want to believe they are so superior to others for the clusterfxxk that is Brexit. The bloke on the street/common man/working class were ignored, vilified and ridiculed for wanting to protect their jobs and way of life. It seemed the people in Islington, Battersea and other poncy gaffs knew best, like those in Muesli Hill, Brighton. I say this as a passionate remainer, the liberal elite were rightly given a bloody nose. Now the UK is going to have a tough few years whatever happens.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I got the impression you were very much in favour of UKIP and the majority of what Farage says. When did you change your mind?

I was in favour of a referendum on exiting the EU so I voted UKIP in the last GE but one to keep the pressure on the Tory promise of offering one. Farage says some things I agree with but others that I don't - much the same as Corbyn and May. And there in lies the issue here - some people appear to think this is a black and white issue - that if you want to leave you must agree with Farage completely. I don't and never have. I haven't changed my mind at all.

 

[The Clamp]

I was in favour of a referendum on exiting the EU so I voted UKIP in the last GE but one to keep the pressure on the Tory promise of offering one. Farage says some things I agree with but others that I don't - much the same as Corbyn and May. And there in lies the issue here - some people appear to think this is a black and white issue - that if you want to leave you must agree with Farage completely. I don't and never have. I haven't changed my mind at all.

Pfft

 

[pastafarian]

The problem with liars is they need a good memory.

You should try and remember that

 

[Pavilionaire]

I was in favour of a referendum on exiting the EU so I voted UKIP in the last GE but one to keep the pressure on the Tory promise of offering one. Farage says some things I agree with but others that I don't - much the same as Corbyn and May. And there in lies the issue here - some people appear to think this is a black and white issue - that if you want to leave you must agree with Farage completely. I don't and never have. I haven't changed my mind at all.

What does that really mean? The bottom line is you voted UKIP and it is the UKIP bullshit that has led us to where we are now, i.e. f*cked.