[Politics] Brexit

[WATFORD zero]

I've got to go out now. Hopefully we'll be back in the single market by the time I get home

 

[pastafarian]

Really not surprised you dont know either if its the Norway option or the Canada option.
Have a chat with your chums and try to find out where some of you are going wrong.

 

[ManOfSussex]

The Irish media, by and large, seem pleased with the developments thus far. This opinion piece explains it all quite clearly in The Irish Times - you can see why Farage isn't happy.

The great surprise of the text of the joint report is that its language is actually much more favourable to Ireland that the text that was leaked on Monday as having been agreed. The language that caused the Democratic Unionist Party to threaten hellfire and damnation suggested that there would be continuing “regulatory alignment” between the two parts of Ireland. What we’ve actually ended up with is much firmer and clearer - and it explicitly invokes the customs union and the single market as the source of these regulations: “In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the internal market and the customs union which, now or in the future, support North-South co-operation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.”
The phrase “in the future” is crucial - it means that every single change in the EU’s rules will have to be mirrored north of the border. But this is now the wooden horse inside the walls of Troy because, to avoid the idea of Northern Ireland becoming a separate regulatory space, there will also have to be the same mirroring of the rules and regulations that continue to apply in Northern Ireland by the UK as a whole. The mathematics are simple: if A equals B and B equals C, then C equals A. A is Ireland’s position in the single market and customs union, B is Northern Ireland’s full alignment to that position and C is the UK’s commitment not to differ from Northern Ireland. The commitment to have no barriers to east-west trade means that London is effectively a prisoner of Belfast.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/...k-from-the-madness-of-a-hard-brexit-1.3320096

 

[Berty23]

Epic trolling from the EU to announce the free trade deal with Japan this morning.

 

[CHAPPERS]

So the bill is a minimum £35 billion.

Fabulous waste of money.

Britain’s divorce bill is estimated to be £35bn-£39bn (€40bn-€45bn), it has been disclosed.

The UK will only pay if a wider withdrawal agreement is struck by Brexit day and there is swift agreement on a transition period. It includes the payment promised by Theresa May in her Florence speech, which she linked to a two-year “implementation period”, as she describes it. The EU is not linking the sum to the transition period, however.

If the UK wants a transition period beyond 31 December 2020, when the current seven-year EU budget ends, it will have to pay more. The EU is also leaving open the question of whether or not it will seek additional funds in return for the transition period. The money will be paid over time rather than in a lump sum.

 

[5ways]

In other news the EU has finalised a free trade deal with Japan...Not as though we'd benefit significantly from such a deal. I'm going to eat a bendy banana just to stick it to those BUREAUCRATS representing the 2 of the 4 largest economies on earth. Who needs them!? Has anyone got Sri Lanka's phone number by the way?

 

[beorhthelm]

I don't believe brexit has been abondoned. Obviously it hasn't.

I do believe that the wording of that section is highly significant in that it opens up a clear route, not previously available, to a soft brexit deal. If you do not see it like that, then fine, but you are out of step with most informed and trusted commentators on both sides. And Nigel Farrage.

In essence the message to hard brexiteers is: 'Feel free to come up with a workable solution to the Irish border question, involving magic pixies and laser beams. But if, by some outside chance, that doesn't come off, then it's a soft brexit'

it certainly does open a route to a softer Brexit, though it doesnt prescribe that it as it not the final agreement. anything that ruled out form of exit at this stage would be daft for all concerned, since we havent got to negotiating all the trade, market and cross boarder arrangements yet. its quite possible to have an arrangement on the Irish border involving available technology, that falls short of lasers and pixies. agreement and time to implement are the obstacles.

 

[Berty23]

So here it is.

here's the more NI specific line - 'the UK will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.'

In other words...we follow rules we have no say over. Control is well and truly back. I predict a Farage/Reece-mogg meltdown by lunchtime. Soft Brexit folks.

Yay. My prediction at 7am was correct.

Farage "the whole thing is humiliating. We have collapsed at every level...everything that has been agreed today is against what 17.4 million people voted for on 23 June 2016"

Glad he knows what everyone voted for but good rant.

 

[pastafarian]

So the bill is a minimum £35 billion.

Fabulous waste of money.

Have they announced the sum then?
Couple of months ago it was 100bn
Last week remainers were up in arms that it was £50bn.
Now its £35bn

Are we playing Brucies higher or lower with the emphasis on lower?

 

[CHAPPERS]

Have they announced the sum then?
Couple of months ago it was 100bn
Last week remainers were up in arms that it was £50bn.
Now its £35bn

Are we playing Brucies higher or lower with the emphasis on lower?

[tweet]939082690183286784[/tweet]

 

[CHAPPERS]

[tweet]939085298142760961[/tweet]

 

[beorhthelm]

So the bill is a minimum £35 billion.

Fabulous waste of money.

that would be money that the EU say we are obligated to pay... so you dont agree with the budgets and payments to the institutions of the EU? i find this line of attack on the bill very very strange.

i always questioned what was supposed to be included in these obligations that the bill could be possibly 100Bn as widely speculated earlier in the process. now we see what is there, couple of years of the existing budget, rollover of the budget to cover in flight projects, its substantial, but more aligned to what one expected to pay, and would have paid if we stayed in.

 

[Mellotron]

that would be money that the EU say we are obligated to pay... so you dont agree with the budgets and payments to the institutions of the EU? i find this line of attack on the bill very very strange.

i always questioned what was supposed to be included in these obligations that the bill could be possibly 100Bn as widely speculated earlier in the process. now we see what is there, couple of years of the existing budget, rollover of the budget to cover in flight projects, its substantial, but more aligned to what one expected to pay, and would have paid if we stayed in.

I think he's saying it's a waste of money because it looks likely that we are paying a lot of money to basically still abide by plenty of EU laws and regulations, yet have no say over them anymore. If I was a Leave voter I would be absolutely fuming right now - plenty are on Twitter and Facebook, this place seems to have avoided the meltdown somehow...touch of the Comical Ali I suspect.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Yay. My prediction at 7am was correct.

Farage "the whole thing is humiliating. We have collapsed at every level...everything that has been agreed today is against what 17.4 million people voted for on 23 June 2016"

Glad he knows what everyone voted for but good rant.

Grizzle away, Nigel.

Such a welcome sign.

 

[5ways]

Also from the Japan agreement "The agreement also opens up services markets, in particular financial services, e-commerce, telecommunications and transport" - exactly the sort of access our economy would thrive on. It is all too depressing. We're going to be locked out at least until this deal is wrapped up and Japan has time for smaller fish. So totally wasteful.

 

[pastafarian]

[tweet]939082690183286784[/tweet]

Do you have a more official statement as to the final amount and not just Nick Robinson.
Was thinking the final bill wont be known until negotiations have finished.
£35bn does seem to be around about the right ball park figure given our obligations.
Much less than the 100,75,50 bn figures spouted earlier and much less than we would pay anyway over the course of a government.
Bit of a bargain if true.

 

[5ways]

[tweet]939057807894220800[/tweet]

[tweet]939058587762118657[/tweet]

So simple, so effective.

 

[CHAPPERS]

I think he's saying it's a waste of money because it looks likely that we are paying a lot of money to basically still abide by plenty of EU laws and regulations, yet have no say over them anymore. If I was a Leave voter I would be absolutely fuming right now - plenty are on Twitter and Facebook, this place seems to have avoided the meltdown somehow...touch of the Comical Ali I suspect.

Quite.

£35 billion for what? To reach alignment with what we already have but then have zero input on what follows?

 

[Berty23]

Also from the Japan agreement "The agreement also opens up services markets, in particular financial services, e-commerce, telecommunications and transport" - exactly the sort of access our economy would thrive on. It is all too depressing. We're going to be locked out at least until this deal is wrapped up and Japan has time for smaller fish. So totally wasteful.

When will Nissan speak? If they are going to join in the trolling they could say "we will stay in U.K. because they are dancing to the EU's tune"

 

[Two Professors]

We are still leaving,and the extra two years that Dumbo's echo was grizzling about are 2019 and 2020.See manufacturing figures are up again,sixth month in a row,car manufacture for export leading the way.Oh,did I say,we are still leaving!