[Politics] Brexit

[highflyer]

on negotiations, probably yes. on running the Brexit department, evidently not. this is consistent with many views of him, that he's a maverick. he's suited to a doing a task, a mission if you will, such as negotiation with the EU, but not so much the day to day administration of a governmental department.

Davis comes across very much as a 'big picture' person. Doesn't do detail. I am not sure that makes him well suited to this particular task, where much of the devil is in the detail.

 

[beorhthelm]

As far as I'm aware the Norway model has always been there for anyone who wanted it

there was, before all the talk of the referendum for several years the notion of a two speed Europe. UK, Denmark, possibly Ireland, maybe some of the newer East Europeans, would proceed in the "slow lane" with reduced integration, while the French, Germans, Italy so on could press on with full integration towards a federal states of Europe so many of them desire. to adopt Norway model you first need to leave the EU, which is what he didnt want to do.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I would love a quick poll of people on here as to whether they are happy with today before all the implications are explained and the sabre rattling starts. It seems that at the moment everyone is reasonably happy. Remainers because this is staying in the single market (just not having a say) and leavers because now we can talk about trade and we are leaving the single market.

Well, surely the text is designed so everyone bar the extreme zealots are happy.

Those who secretly wanted *no deal* will be most unhappy.

I don't think we can assume a 'Norway deal' just yet, but rejoining the EFTA which we left to join the Common Market perhaps makes some sense now they have recently appeared to soften their stance on us getting back in.

 

[Mellotron]

As I sad: There seems to be a lot of rowing back going on from the confident 'it will never happen' positions and now rather a futile clinging to "In the absence of agreed solutions..."

It basically isn’t happening! Farage has just tweeted “this isn’t Brexit”.

 

[Mellotron]

on negotiations, probably yes. on running the Brexit department, evidently not. this is consistent with many views of him, that he's a maverick. he's suited to a doing a task, a mission if you will, such as negotiation with the EU, but not so much the day to day administration of a governmental department.

Lovely use of the word “Maverick”

Like David Brent. Or Ali Dia.

 

[beorhthelm]

I have read more. What are your thoughts on this section?

View attachment 91796

Freedom of movement continues as long as it happens via Ireland? (I'm not sure and haven't seen any expert analysis yet)

not at all surprised by that, the Common Travel Area was in effect between UK and Ireland before we joined the EEC/EU, so it would seem natural it would continue

 

[highflyer]

To be fair, I can see how this could make the trade talks a whole lot easier - two birds with one stone. Maybe TM knew what she was doing all along

My take is that both Labour and Conservative leadership are trying to find a pathway to getting their supporters on board for a soft brexit. they both know that is the best/only way to make this all work.

Labour party and members are probably, mainly, OK in principle, but they are rightly scared of losing votes to UKIP in some key seats.

Conservatives (Teresa May, who is a certainly remainer at heart) have a harder job because many of their MPs and powerful supporters are pathologically opposed to staying in the customs union and single market.

 

[beorhthelm]

Well, surely the text is designed so everyone bar the extreme zealots are happy.

thats exactly what it is, mainly because its only an outline agreement so they can move onto the meat of negotiations, trade. until thats discussed properly, all this arguing over Custom Union, Single market, Norwegian or Swiss models is so aimless.

 

[Titanic]

It basically isn’t happening! Farage has just tweeted “this isn’t Brexit”.

Remoaners clinging to Farage for comfort... wow, I didn't expect that

 

[pastafarian]

The JOINT REPORT FROM THE NEGOTIATORS OF THE EUROPEAN UNION AND THE UNITED KINGDOM GOVERNMENT ON PROGRESS DURING PHASE 1 OF NEGOTIATIONS UNDER ARTICLE 50 TEU ON THE UNITED KINGDOM'S ORDERLY WITHDRAWAL FROM THE EUROPEAN UNION is here in all its glory:

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/joint_report.pdf

#enjoy

Good stuff

Is there a reason though why some remainers are omitting clause 45 in their carefully selected quotes and interpretation this morning?

45. The United Kingdom respects Ireland's ongoing membership of the European Union and all of the corresponding rights and obligations that entails, in particular Ireland's place in the Internal Market and the Customs Union. The United Kingdom also recalls its commitment to preserving the integrity of its internal market and Northern Ireland's place within it, as the United Kingdom leaves the European Union's Internal Market and Customs Union.


Good also to see The EU has compromised/folded and will no longer block attempts for us to seek criminal checks on EU citizens seeking to remain here under “settled status” as we Leave.

 

[WATFORD zero]

My take is that both Labour and Conservative leadership are trying to find a pathway to getting their supporters on board for a soft brexit. they both know that is the best/only way to make this all work.

Labour party and members are probably, mainly, OK in principle, but they are rightly scared of losing votes to UKIP in some key seats.

Conservatives (Teresa May, who is a certainly remainer at heart) have a harder job because many of their MPs and powerful supporters are pathologically opposed to staying in the customs union and single market.

I suspect that this will be the next response from Brexiteers. 'She was a remainer all along and we have been stitched up'.

I wonder why the dream team of Nige, Boris, Andrea and Gove didn't continue their marvellous winning streak and lead us on to the Brexit that they outlined

 

[CHAPPERS]

Do you reckon they have seen the impact assessments, seen how damaging a hard Brexit would be, and are now celebrating this soft version of Brexit so as not to lose face?

 

[CHAPPERS]

Well, surely the text is designed so everyone bar the extreme zealots are happy.

Constructive ambiguity.

 

[beorhthelm]

Is there a reason though why some remainers are omitting clause 45 in their carefully selected quotes and interpretation this morning?

same reason as they dont notice its a section specific to "Ireland and Northern Ireland", they want to believe brexit has been abandoned, when its simply agreement on how to park the Ireland/NI issue for now.

 

[vegster]

Davis comes across very much as a 'big picture' person. Doesn't do detail. I am not sure that makes him well suited to this particular task, where much of the devil is in the detail.

Certainly gets confused about " Impact Assessments "....

 

[highflyer]

Certainly gets confused about " Impact Assessments "....

Boring detail

 

[ManOfSussex]

[tweet]939033370834583553[/tweet]

 

[Titanic]

There seems to be quite a lot of 'playing the man' going on this morning. Is that all you've got?

 

[WATFORD zero]

I see from the announcement that we are still paying membership fees for 2019 and 2020 but can't see any mention of our request for a further 2 years membership. Maybe we need to change the title of this thread ?

 

[highflyer]

same reason as they dont notice its a section specific to "Ireland and Northern Ireland", they want to believe brexit has been abandoned, when its simply agreement on how to park the Ireland/NI issue for now.

I don't believe brexit has been abondoned. Obviously it hasn't.

I do believe that the wording of that section is highly significant in that it opens up a clear route, not previously available, to a soft brexit deal. If you do not see it like that, then fine, but you are out of step with most informed and trusted commentators on both sides. And Nigel Farrage.

In essence the message to hard brexiteers is: 'Feel free to come up with a workable solution to the Irish border question, involving magic pixies and laser beams. But if, by some outside chance, that doesn't come off, then it's a soft brexit'