[Politics] Brexit

[Jim D]

Tory grandee Lawson is reported in the Times this morning as saying that "No Deal" has been the most likely outcome for some time.

And so it has

 

[beorhthelm]

.... If we can negotiate some sort of customs union deal then we should be able to keep the border open as now, but that would be impossible under a WTO deal.

thats half the problem, and Barnier is even hinting at it - without some negotiations on the future, you cant resolve completely the present. Ireland in particular, the remainers themselves were screaming for clarity from the British government on how a trade deal between NI and RoI would work, but have overlooked that the EU wont even discuss it at this point. they've created a proper Gordian knot there.

 

[Jim D]

That's not how deals get done, political leaders don't just throw their toys of the pram because they are affronted ! View attachment 90168

Can I refer you to the current US President......

 

[beorhthelm]

That's not how deals get done, political leaders don't just throw their toys of the pram because they are affronted !

first, yes they do all the time, in their own way. secondly, you'd never be able to sell it to the British public. how would it even work in practice, if you have a legal dispute with a Pole or Spainard, you have to go to Brussels? thirdly, using a Trump meme, let be more serious about it.

 

[Jim D]

Just heard that Juncker has given an analogy to a group of students about drinking - what a surprise!! - saying that if 28 people go into a bar and each orders a beer then if one leaves without paying it shouldn't be right for the others to pay for it. I agree that we should pay for ours, but not for our beer in the 27 rounds of drinks that the others are staying for. That's the problem with someone like Juncker - he's always looking for someone to pay for his drinks.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Just because a question is straightforward doesn't mean the answer is.

If you chose not to be punched in the face by Anthony Joshua, which current heavyweight would you choose to punch you in the face?

(Hint go for Hughie Fury, his fights often go the distance and you will probably only lose a couple of teeth)

Just after May's coughing speech, Eddie Mair toyed with Amber Rudd on R4 PM. One of the questions she couldn't answer was - Given a general election victory legitimises a manifesto for the duration of a parliament, at what point does the referendum vote expire?

I know your answer to this question already as per Article 50. I just don't believe it can and will happen, unless there is a compromise deal. I have no idea what a compromise deal can and would look like (which makes it difficult to answer a simple question) and again this can be read two ways. Our plucky government is playing a brilliant game of bluff and counter bluff and will emerge with a last minute deal that will set us on our way for the next decades....or we have a disorganised, discordant government in disarray, who are negotiating from a weak base and will fall apart before 2019.

Incidentally McDonnell says labour will deliver a better Brexit. Would you get behind a socialist Brexit, especially one with a strong 5 year parliamentary mandate? theoretical question of course.

I asked the question because it appears that some people are willing to defer to the EU side on all matters and blame the UK for every problem. Some said we should cave in and follow the exact EU sequencing favouring their negotiating position others seem to think we should unilaterally guarantee EU citizens rights before securing our own citizen's rights. I'm sure they would also welcome any concession if it meant we could remain EU members in all but name. Which is the real reason the question is so difficult to answer for people who still haven't accepted the referendum result. There is also the motivation to constantly talk up any difficulties (there are many to choose from) in the hope we all see the light and call the whole thing off. People with this mindset in Parliament certainly aren't helping matters.

Read it two ways or stick nearer the Truth which is probably found somewhere in the middle.

I would be amazed if McDonnell even knew what Labour's current Brexit position is ..

https://twitter.com/daily_politics/status/916973442917740544/video/1

If you can find out what a 'Socialist Brexit' means let me know.

 

[CheeseRolls]

I asked the question because it appears that some people are willing to defer to the EU side on all matters and blame the UK for every problem. Some said we should cave in and follow the exact EU sequencing favouring their negotiating position others seem to think we should unilaterally guarantee EU citizens rights before securing our own citizen's rights. I'm sure they would also welcome any concession if it meant we could remain EU members in all but name. Which is the real reason the question is so difficult to answer for people who still haven't accepted the referendum result. There is also the motivation to constantly talk up any difficulties (there are many to choose from) in the hope we all see the light and call the whole thing off. People with this mindset in Parliament certainly aren't helping matters.

Read it two ways or stick nearer the Truth which is probably found somewhere in the middle.

I would be amazed if McDonnell even knew what Labour's current Brexit position is ..

https://twitter.com/daily_politics/status/916973442917740544/video/1

If you can find out what a 'Socialist Brexit' means let me know.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have accepted the referendum result from day one, I am busy trying to hold people accountable for what they promised to deliver. I think you need to check if you have accepted the referendum? Are we going to get out given the current state of negotiations? Are we going to deliver on any of the promises made?

One version of a socialist Brexit (note this is no more labour policy, than John Redwood representing the Tories) is tighter immigration controls, nationalisation of key industries, market regulation and a push to put more money in the pocket of low paid workers. This one is just as flawed as Minford's master unilateral free trade strategy. It ticks the sovereignty and immigration boxes.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Tory grandee Lawson is reported in the Times this morning as saying that "No Deal" has been the most likely outcome for some time.

In fairness to him I can recall seeing him on Sky News in June of last year saying we shouldn't even waste our time attempting to do one with The EU.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Just heard that Juncker has given an analogy to a group of students about drinking - what a surprise!! - saying that if 28 people go into a bar and each orders a beer then if one leaves without paying it shouldn't be right for the others to pay for it. I agree that we should pay for ours, but not for our beer in the 27 rounds of drinks that the others are staying for. That's the problem with someone like Juncker - he's always looking for someone to pay for his drinks.

But what if you had promised everyone a drink and ordered them at the bar, a few craft ales, some craft lagers, G&T, a couple of cocktails etc, and then when the drinks had been dished out you decided that actually you are a bit of knob and you decide to duck the bill and f**k off down the curry house in you own, hoping that by some long shot a distant relative might rock up there and make you feel all important again.

 

[Jim D]

But what if you had promised everyone a drink and ordered them at the bar, a few craft ales, some craft lagers, G&T, a couple of cocktails etc, and then when the drinks had been dished out you decided that actually you are a bit of knob and you decide to duck the bill and f**k off down the curry house in you own, hoping that by some long shot a distant relative might rock up there and make you feel all important again.

And what if you hadn't?

 

[ManOfSussex]

And what if you hadn't?

Yeah, but this is The Conservative and Unionist Party we're talking about here and they have ordered the above. They've called the foreign barman names too. All for no need too..................

 

[dazzer6666]

But what if you had promised everyone a drink and ordered them at the bar, a few craft ales, some craft lagers, G&T, a couple of cocktails etc, and then when the drinks had been dished out you decided that actually you are a bit of knob and you decide to duck the bill and f**k off down the curry house in you own, hoping that by some long shot a distant relative might rock up there and make you feel all important again.

What about if you’d been paying for everyone’s drinks for years, but they still keep expecting you to buy more for them, even though they are all pissed already (at your expense) and spend all day asleep under an Olive tree while you work your nuts off ?

 

[beorhthelm]

But what if you had promised everyone a drink and ordered them at the bar, a few craft ales, some craft lagers, G&T, a couple of cocktails etc, and then when the drinks had been dished out you decided that actually you are a bit of knob and you decide to duck the bill and f**k off down the curry house in you own, hoping that by some long shot a distant relative might rock up there and make you feel all important again.

but thats not whats happening. we're happy to pay for the round, just not pay for everyones meal later on after we left.

 

[ManOfSussex]

but thats not whats happening. we're happy to pay for the round, just not pay for everyones meal later on after we left.

But we've been the cool kids doing just that for 44 years, so it's not going to be easy to agree to a strict club-soda, Miss Marple Britain new tab after 2 years, particularly when it's sad numpties like Redwood and Rees-Mogg saying we don't have to buy the nice girls no more drinks.

 

[Hampster Gull]

What about if you’d been paying for everyone’s drinks for years, but they still keep expecting you to buy more for them, even though they are all pissed already (at your expense) and spend all day asleep under an Olive tree while you work your nuts off ?

But what if you were once the rich kid and ruled the town, you could afford all those drinks, but as the years rolled on you realised that your friends were just as rich and generous but they had tired of your constant moaning. As well as drinking with them (but moaning like hell) you drank alone more and more, and slowly your influence eroded. Rather than drop the drink, rather than focus on being productive at work as opposed to work hard but dumb and rather than approach the cute girl that occasionally looks your way you decide to book yourself into a lunatics asylum.

 

[dazzer6666]

But what if you were once the rich kid and ruled the town, you could afford all those drinks, but as the years rolled on you realised that actually your friends had tired of your constant moaning and as well as drinking with them you drank alone more and more, and slowly your influence eroded. Rather than drop the drink, rather than focus on being productive at work rather than show up and do sweat FA and rather than approach the cute girl that occasionally looks your way you decide to book yourself into a lunatics asylum.

No, never worked in Investment Banking [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

[Jim D]

but thats not whats happening. we're happy to pay for the round, just not pay for everyones meal later on after we left.

I wouldn't be at all happy to pay for the round when I intend to leave straight after. I'd leave my money on the bar (plus a tip) and go. The problems start when Juncker pockets the cash to pay for his own drink and claims I didn't pay.

 

[ManOfSussex]

If you can find out what a 'Socialist Brexit' means let me know.

It means a Brexit that doesn't **** over millions of people in this country to uphold a Redwood/Rees-Mogg ideological/Miss Marple Britain Brexit and never ending austerity/continuation of squeezed living standards/Tory Brexit/Universal Credits scandal..........it's going to be shooting fish in a barrel at the next election. Europe has always been a Tory problem. Get out out of it. #goodbeyandgoodriddance

(clapyourhands#clapyourhands)

 

[Jim D]

It means a Brexit that doesn't **** over millions of people in this country to uphold a Redwood/Rees-Mogg ideological/Miss Marple Britain Brexit and never ending austerity/continuation of squeezed living standards/Tory Brexit/Universal Credits scandal..........it's going to be shooting fish in a barrel at the next election. Europe has always been a Tory problem. Get out out of it. #goodbeyandgoodriddance

(clapyourhands#clapyourhands)

I doubt that. It will mean that they agree to anything that the EU demand (and believe me they'll come up with plenty more) in order to have a brexit that looks just like remain. And they'll expect the UK taxpayer and business to pay for it. I do remember the 95% tax rates that led to anyone that could living elsewhere.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I doubt that. It will mean that they agree to anything that the EU demand (and believe me they'll come up with plenty more) in order to have a brexit that looks just like remain. And they'll expect the UK taxpayer and business to pay for it. I do remember the 95% tax rates that led to anyone that could living elsewhere.

I've met more meaningful Germans than I ever had Tory's. I'd buy a German a pint. A Tory.............