[Politics] Brexit

[alfredmizen]

The link between trade and military is not present. The UK will still stand together with other NATO members regardless of whether EU members or not.

Yes of course it will on matters that relate to NATO , there have been several occasions when the EU has decided to act unilaterally , not all NATO members are EU members , there is also the matter of sharing intelligence , some halfwit suggested the EU intelligence services would withhold intelligence were we to leave the EU , whereas our intelligence network knocks anything the EU has into a cocked hat, in short , they need us more than we need them.

 

[The Clamp]

Was listening to the early morning news, half asleep, some expert saying Brexit had not damaged the country and the signs were good.

Sounds about right

 

[The Clamp]

Yes of course it will on matters that relate to NATO , there have been several occasions when the EU has decided to act unilaterally , not all NATO members are EU members , there is also the matter of sharing intelligence , some halfwit suggested the EU intelligence services would withhold intelligence were we to leave the EU , whereas our intelligence network knocks anything the EU has into a cocked hat, in short , they need us more than we need them.

It's that last line of yours and the blinkered, shortsighted, arrogant attitude that will ensure we get a bad deal in Brexit.
Quite mind boggling that people still hold these ridiculous opinions. Just about sums a lot of Brexiteers up though. "We're the best, we can go it alone as we're better than everyone". An attitude that history has time and time again proved to be nothing but bluster.

 

[larus]

And without the effect of Brexit on the value of the pound the domestic cost of fuel would be higher or lower.

Maybe it's a little complicated for you. I'm not saying that the financial markets haven't had a hissy fit and reduced the value of sterling (which BTW, was widely accepted as being OVER-VALUED), but, as it's quite clear to any half-intelligent person, there are many factors which impact the price of fuel. The individual strength of the dollar and that of sterling (the dollar has strengthened - got it?) and then the price of a barrel of oil.

What you Reaminers can't seem to understand (shame, as it's really not complicated), is that Sterling was over-valued and a correction would have happened at some time. As I've posted before, Sterling is MARGINALLY below it's average value of the last 8 year or so. Itt;s been as high as 1.52 (mid 2007) and as low as 1.02 (end 2008) and is now fluctuating between 1.7-1.9, which may be 8-10 cents below it's 'long-term' average.

Wow - the world is coming to an end. Shall I call your mum for you?

 

[The Clamp]

I see that the treasury today has admitted that they were totally wrong about the financial crisis and Brexit.

Andy Haldane, the Bank of England’s chief economist, said there was a “disconnect” between political warnings about Brexit and the “remarkably placid” state of the markets, adding that the worst predictions may turn out to be “just scare stories”.

When it was put to him that the Bank of England had forecast a “hurricane” after the Brexit vote which had not materialised, Mr Haldane replied: “It’s true, and again fair cop.”

He said: “We had foreseen a sharper slowdown in the economy than has happened, in common with almost every other mainstream macro forecaster. Why has that been the case? We need look no further than the behaviour of the British consumer, the British housing market.

“If you look at how the consumer performed during the course of the last year it’s almost as though the referendum had not taken place. In terms of the real things like pay and jobs not very much happened during the course of last year. It’s pretty much business as usual. The spending power in people’s pockets was not materially dented.”

He said that people were still likely to see “something of a squeeze” on their spending power this year because the falling value of the pound would lead to rising prices. However, he added that it was not “inevitable”.

He said: “Right now there is a very interesting disconnect between what we read in the papers about the degree of political and policy uncertainty, which by any historical metric is at high levels, and what we have seen from the economy and financial markets, which have actually been remarkably placid. That disconnect cannot last forever. There will need to be a reconciliation between the two ... Maybe some of the scarier stories politically will be seen to be just that – scare stories. ”



As you Remainers have continually said, the experts were predicting doom and gloom. We Brexiters have said there may be some effect but nothings really happened. Now, even the Remainers 'cheerleaders' are admitting they haven't got a frigging clue. So, it's about time you stopped saying the world will end.

Probably been instructed to say such things like those guys at the press conference who were asked to leave if they said anything negative about Brexit but instead had to spout that it was a time for opportunity.

In other words, bullshit.

 

[The Clamp]

Maybe it's a little complicated for you. I'm not saying that the financial markets haven't had a hissy fit and reduced the value of sterling (which BTW, was widely accepted as being OVER-VALUED), but, as it's quite clear to any half-intelligent person, there are many factors which impact the price of fuel. The individual strength of the dollar and that of sterling (the dollar has strengthened - got it?) and then the price of a barrel of oil.

What you Reaminers can't seem to understand (shame, as it's really not complicated), is that Sterling was over-valued and a correction would have happened at some time. As I've posted before, Sterling is MARGINALLY below it's average value of the last 8 year or so. Itt;s been as high as 1.52 (mid 2007) and as low as 1.02 (end 2008) and is now fluctuating between 1.7-1.9, which may be 8-10 cents below it's 'long-term' average.

Wow - the world is coming to an end. Shall I call your mum for you?

You are totally clueless. Utterly.
A currency can not be OVER VALUED or UNDER VALUED. It's an utterly meaningless term. A term you have grabbed to try and sound like you know what you are talking about. A currency is worth EXACTLY what it is worth at the time and precisely reflects the confidence in a country's economy. Which is exactly the reason the value of sterling has dropped.

Before you spout off that others don't get it, check your facts.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I see that the treasury today has admitted that they were totally wrong about the financial crisis and Brexit.

Andy Haldane, the Bank of England’s chief economist, said there was a “disconnect” between political warnings about Brexit and the “remarkably placid” state of the markets, adding that the worst predictions may turn out to be “just scare stories”.

When it was put to him that the Bank of England had forecast a “hurricane” after the Brexit vote which had not materialised, Mr Haldane replied: “It’s true, and again fair cop.”

He said: “We had foreseen a sharper slowdown in the economy than has happened, in common with almost every other mainstream macro forecaster. Why has that been the case? We need look no further than the behaviour of the British consumer, the British housing market.

“If you look at how the consumer performed during the course of the last year it’s almost as though the referendum had not taken place. In terms of the real things like pay and jobs not very much happened during the course of last year. It’s pretty much business as usual. The spending power in people’s pockets was not materially dented.”

He said that people were still likely to see “something of a squeeze” on their spending power this year because the falling value of the pound would lead to rising prices. However, he added that it was not “inevitable”.

He said: “Right now there is a very interesting disconnect between what we read in the papers about the degree of political and policy uncertainty, which by any historical metric is at high levels, and what we have seen from the economy and financial markets, which have actually been remarkably placid. That disconnect cannot last forever. There will need to be a reconciliation between the two ... Maybe some of the scarier stories politically will be seen to be just that – scare stories. ”



As you Remainers have continually said, the experts were predicting doom and gloom. We Brexiters have said there may be some effect but nothings really happened. Now, even the Remainers 'cheerleaders' are admitting they haven't got a frigging clue. So, it's about time you stopped saying the world will end.

Whilst it's true that the economy has not gone to pot, (it still could) it’s not all rosy is it. The pound has slumped against The Euro and the Dollar. Hammond has had to borrow another 60 billion, making the public finances even worse and inflation is set for a significant jump. What Andy Haldane didn’t say was that personal household debt is still going up and credit card debt is at an all-time high, an eye watering £ 66 billion. And of course we haven’t even left yet. If Brexit makes us all better off then fine but my supposition is that Brexit Britain will be a poorer, not richer place.
But Brexit is about something bigger than just the economy isn’t it. It’s also about an attitude which says we know better and we’re better off on our own. I don’t agree with that and will continue to say so. Being part of the EU, with all its faults, (and yes it has many) was about being part of something bigger - helping to maintain peace, about cultural exchange and co-operation between different countries. Perhaps these are old fashioned values but there we are.
And a quick word about the 3 million people from other EU countries that live and work here. It is shameful the way they have been treated since last June. Many now feel unwelcome in our country which has always been a place of tolerance and pluralism. The right thing for Theresa May to do was to say they are part of us and are welcome to stay. Instead, they’re being used as political bargaining chips. That’s a disgrace.

 

[larus]

You are totally clueless. Utterly.
A currency can not be OVER VALUED or UNDER VALUED. It's an utterly meaningless term. A term you have grabbed to try and sound like you know what you are talking about. A currency is worth EXACTLY what it is worth at the time and precisely reflects the confidence in a country's economy. Which is exactly the reason the value of sterling has dropped.

Before you spout off that others don't get it, check your facts.

Wow, you really are dumb Nibble. So, these financial markets are SOOOOOO good that they had everything factored in like the 2008 Financial Crisis. When you have more than one brain cell, come back and discuss, but you really are clueless.

 

[cunning fergus]

Agree with most of what you say, except the last bit as I would be a more natural conservative than socialist. I think party politics should be excluded from the Brexit debate as they aren't relevant IMO.

All the while the consequences of Brexit are defined within the paradigm of capitalism, it is impossible not to link that to political ideology and party politics.

I am a more natural socialist, which is why the EU's demand for a free unfettered labour market across the EU is a significant problem. Those who support free markets of any kind are unashamed free market Tories.........there is no getting away from that fact.

Some people need to know what they are.

 

[The Clamp]

I see that the treasury today has admitted that they were totally wrong about the financial crisis and Brexit.

Andy Haldane, the Bank of England’s chief economist, said there was a “disconnect” between political warnings about Brexit and the “remarkably placid” state of the markets, adding that the worst predictions may turn out to be “just scare stories”.

When it was put to him that the Bank of England had forecast a “hurricane” after the Brexit vote which had not materialised, Mr Haldane replied: “It’s true, and again fair cop.”

He said: “We had foreseen a sharper slowdown in the economy than has happened, in common with almost every other mainstream macro forecaster. Why has that been the case? We need look no further than the behaviour of the British consumer, the British housing market.

“If you look at how the consumer performed during the course of the last year it’s almost as though the referendum had not taken place. In terms of the real things like pay and jobs not very much happened during the course of last year. It’s pretty much business as usual. The spending power in people’s pockets was not materially dented.”

He said that people were still likely to see “something of a squeeze” on their spending power this year because the falling value of the pound would lead to rising prices. However, he added that it was not “inevitable”.

He said: “Right now there is a very interesting disconnect between what we read in the papers about the degree of political and policy uncertainty, which by any historical metric is at high levels, and what we have seen from the economy and financial markets, which have actually been remarkably placid. That disconnect cannot last forever. There will need to be a reconciliation between the two ... Maybe some of the scarier stories politically will be seen to be just that – scare stories. ”



As you Remainers have continually said, the experts were predicting doom and gloom. We Brexiters have said there may be some effect but nothings really happened. Now, even the Remainers 'cheerleaders' are admitting they haven't got a frigging clue. So, it's about time you stopped saying the world will end.

It's all well and good for a man with a six figure salary to say people will probably "feel the squeeze". He is insulated by wealth and status. A single mother of 4 in Newport feeling the squeeze is another thing entirely.

 

[The Clamp]

Wow, you really are dumb Nibble. So, these financial markets are SOOOOOO good that they had everything factored in like the 2008 Financial Crisis. When you have more than one brain cell, come back and discuss, but you really are clueless.

Nibble? You really are clueless. You're gobbing off I here like you actually have a clue. You don't and your arrogance makes you look even dafter. Now, wind your neck in lad, you're making a clown of yourself. Good boy.

 

[Biscuit]

Tony Blair called her a 'lightweight'. He was right.

 

[cunning fergus]

The link between trade and military is not present. The UK will still stand together with other NATO members regardless of whether EU members or not.

That is to ignore the realpolitik of such a position though doesn't it?

Why would any country seek to economically punish one of its closest military allies?

It doesn't make sense, as you well know.

 

[larus]

Whilst it's true that the economy has not gone to pot, (it still could) it’s not all rosy is it. The pound has slumped against The Euro and the Dollar. Hammond has had to borrow another 60 billion, making the public finances even worse and inflation is set for a significant jump. What Andy Haldane didn’t say was that personal household debt is still going up and credit card debt is at an all-time high, an eye watering £ 66 billion. And of course we haven’t even left yet. If Brexit makes us all better off then fine but my supposition is that Brexit Britain will be a poorer, not richer place.
But Brexit is about something bigger than just the economy isn’t it. It’s also about an attitude which says we know better and we’re better off on our own. I don’t agree with that and will continue to say so. Being part of the EU, with all its faults, (and yes it has many) was about being part of something bigger - helping to maintain peace, about cultural exchange and co-operation between different countries. Perhaps these are old fashioned values but there we are.
And a quick word about the 3 million people from other EU countries that live and work here. It is shameful the way they have been treated since last June. Many now feel unwelcome in our country which has always been a place of tolerance and pluralism. The right thing for Theresa May to do was to say they are part of us and are welcome to stay. Instead, they’re being used as political bargaining chips. That’s a disgrace.

A lot of your post is your opinion about what MAY happen. I feel different, but we will never know (nor can we ever know the actual impact of the referendum). As there are so many factors which impact an economy, both internal and external, it's ludicrous for any one side to say with CERTAINTY that such an outcome was caused by an event.

As for your point regarding the the EU workers here, the UK government WANTED to agree with the EU the rights of these workers here and the rights for UK workers within the EU. The EU refused, not the UK,l so if you want to blame someone, blame the right people.

And about tolerance, there has always been racial tensions everywhere in the world. I think what has happened is that there has been a visible reaction from some of the knuckle-draggers in society towards immigrants. But, when you have the level if immigration into a country as we have seen over the last 10 years or so, there are bound to be issues. However, the constant sniping from the Remainers the those who voted Brexit was racist if frankly, f*cking insulting.

 

[The Clamp]

A lot of your post is your opinion about what MAY happen. I feel different, but we will never know (nor can we ever know the actual impact of the referendum). As there are so many factors which impact an economy, both internal and external, it's ludicrous for any one side to say with CERTAINTY that such an outcome was caused by an event.

As for your point regarding the the EU workers here, the UK government WANTED to agree with the EU the rights of these workers here and the rights for UK workers within the EU. The EU refused, not the UK,l so if you want to blame someone, blame the right people.

And about tolerance, there has always been racial tensions everywhere in the world. I think what has happened is that there has been a visible reaction from some of the knuckle-draggers in society towards immigrants. But, when you have the level if immigration into a country as we have seen over the last 10 years or so, there are bound to be issues. However, the constant sniping from the Remainers the those who voted Brexit was racist if frankly, f*cking insulting.

True colours in that last sentence there.

 

[larus]

Nibble? You really are clueless. You're gobbing off I here like you actually have a clue. You don't and your arrogance makes you look even dafter. Now, wind your neck in lad, you're making a clown of yourself. Good boy.

Whatever. You're not even worth bothering with as you your IQ is probably the same as your age. You seem to think that markets are rational, but it's widely accepted that market behaviour is not rational and acts more like 'herd' mentality. I suggest you try and read a bit more sunshine, and I don't mean the Sun website.

 

[The Clamp]

Whatever. You're not even worth bothering with as you your IQ is probably the same as your age. You seem to think that markets are rational, but it's widely accepted that market behaviour is not rational and acts more like 'herd' mentality. I suggest you try and read a bit more sunshine, and I don't mean the Sun website.

Shhh.

 

[beorhthelm]

I am a more natural socialist, which is why the EU's demand for a free unfettered labour market across the EU is a significant problem. Those who support free markets of any kind are unashamed free market Tories.........there is no getting away from that fact.

not a fact though is it, supporters of free markets are liberals. original Tories were opposed to free market reforms as they broke the hold of the aristocracy over wealth, i pull you up on such narrow use of the appellation as free markets have done far more to elevate people from poverty and enhance social mobility than other economic systems. socialism has its merits, if you want everyone to have just enough and no more, with a lower threshold for poverty. just saying.

 

[pb21]

All the while the consequences of Brexit are defined within the paradigm of capitalism, it is impossible not to link that to political ideology and party politics.

I am a more natural socialist, which is why the EU's demand for a free unfettered labour market across the EU is a significant problem. Those who support free markets of any kind are unashamed free market Tories.........there is no getting away from that fact.

Some people need to know what they are.

The EU isn't a free market though is it, that is why so many Tory types want out.

 

[GT49er]

Tony Blair called her a 'lightweight'. He was right.

Tony Blair said Saddam had WMDs. He was right........................




..............................Oh.