[News] Baby murder nurse case

[Seagull58]

It rarely happens and isn't a major problem compared to millions of us suffering from sewage in the sea, or climate change etc.
It could even be classed as posturing for a populist opinion.

So, would you prefer he didn't do it?

 

[The Clamp]

So sorry to hear about your awful experience with MbP. I agree that it may have played a part in Letby's actions, perhaps it started with that but developed into something much worse. Just horrendous, whatever the reasons.

Thank you.

Yes, I think mental illness like that must take so many forms from the almost harmless to murder.

As you say, grim.

 

[dazzer6666]

Hard faced journos call some cases “mad or bad” trials. If a defendant claims to have mental health issues then a court has to decide whether that was the reason or excuse for the behaviour. Letby hasn’t provided evidence of any such issues.

I know, but what she did are not the actions of a person without some mental issues, whatever they might be.

 

[GT49er]

Wow.

That's a very misguided bit of emoting. Have you any idea what the moors murderers did to those kids? Evidently not.

It is very unhelpful to put all child killers into the same box, as if that somehow explains things. Clearly it won't help plan to avoid it happening again

Two things are needed. One is better psychometric assessment of medical trainees during training to weed out the munchausen by proxy types. Second, to change the management culture so that managers cannot cover up unusual death patterns recognized during audit (as happened here).

I prefer solutions, and prevention, to after-the-fact mob rule.

Finally, these aren't the middle ages, and having this women attacked in the prison showers solves nothing, no matter how much pleasure it may give you.

Solutions and preventions are indeed by far the best thing - but in this case they didn't happen so are irrelevant.

There is nothing medieval about hoping a child murderer spends the rest of their life in fear and misery.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Might not be a popular POV but hopefully L/L parents are decent family people and should this be case life for them must be a living hell and maybe a life not worth living?

 

[wellquickwoody]

how much is down to Tory cuts to NHS and other services, due to staff shortages / austerity which creates vacuums where such complacancy can occur?

Remember when they say "less government / smaller state" and "the nanny state" - reap what you sow

Jesus fxxkin Christ

 

[Lever]

This case is beyond shocking and I fear that, rather than identifying the systemic failures and addressing them fully we will be left with the unedifying spectacle of a tabloid witch hunt to punish individual people in the NHS as a kind of sacrifice and then claim the problem is solved.

Imagine the comments some people on this site would make if Letby had been an immigrant?

 

[portlock seagull]

This case is beyond shocking and I fear that, rather than identifying the systemic failures and addressing them fully we will be left with the unedifying spectacle of a tabloid witch hunt to punish individual people in the NHS as a kind of sacrifice and then claim the problem is solved.

Imagine the comments some people on this site would make if Letby had been an immigrant?

Well in fairness, if someone who was an illegal immigrant was also guilty of such crimes then that would be two public sectors demanding answers. But let’s not go there. Bad enough with just one failing.

 

[portlock seagull]

Might not be a popular POV but hopefully L/L parents are decent family people and should this be case life for them must be a living hell and maybe a life not worth living?

Eh? What are you suggesting?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

So, would you prefer he didn't do it?

Frankly, yes. Have you read the analysis by the barrister?

What I would want, is for the defendant to be taken into a room where the judge can be seen, and the sentence very audible so they have to listen to it, and no minimum wage security guard gets injured trying to force the prisoner into a van and a court room.

 

[Cotton Socks]

Sincerely hope the sentencing reflects the evil bitch being bad rather than mad. Won't be holding my breath tho

You can't plead diminished responsibility after trial and sentencing. It was probably one of the 1st things that her defence thought of & there is/was nothing to back that up. However I don't 'think' there is anything to say she can't be moved to a secure unit rather than a prison if she does suddenly become 'mad'. I'm no legal or psychology expert though so I could be wrong.

 

[clapham_gull]

I've witnessed a few odd things in hospital but obviously nothing at this scale.

I encountered a nurse who (on balance) appeared to be engineering situations where something would hurt her. Whether that being scratched by a patients nails or in my case deliberately walking into my path when I was carrying a cup of coffee.

This went on during many many visits. Eventually something very odd and distressing happened so I reported her behaviour to the senior nurse.

They knew about it. But she was simply moved off onto another ward.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Eh? What are you suggesting?

Many would say that L/L parents are also victims in this case and any form of meaningful life after this is effectively over.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Imagine the comments some people on this site would make if Letby had been an immigrant?

If me Granny had balls she'd be me Grandad.

 

[Cotton Socks]

Would any mitigating circumstances have to be declared before trial? Or can it be introduced on appeal?

I feel sorry for the solicitor that had to defend this woman.

I don't think it can be introduced on appeal & I expect the 1st thing her defence tried to do was find grounds for diminished responsibility.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

if you cut staff numbers to the bare bones, where staff have to do extremely long shifts and there are less supervisors and managers to oversee others, it stands to reasons complacacency can emerge and things like this can be missed. Just like the many cases of mistreatment of kids from abusive parents which could have been prevented but social services are overstretched.

All the government care about is whether there are less foreigners doing these jobs

Austerity kills

Not now please.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Solutions and preventions are indeed by far the best thing - but in this case they didn't happen so are irrelevant.

There is nothing medieval about hoping a child murderer spends the rest of their life in fear and misery.

Fear and misery? Perhaps. Actually being assaulted?

 

[Si Gull]

You can't plead diminished responsibility after trial and sentencing. It was probably one of the 1st things that her defence thought of & there is/was nothing to back that up. However I don't 'think' there is anything to say she can't be moved to a secure unit rather than a prison if she does suddenly become 'mad'. I'm no legal or psychology expert though so I could be wrong.

I think it likely she'll be placed in a secure unit 'for her own safety'. Some will argue that she doesn't deserve protection, I understand that, but she's clearly 'mentally ill' and will need protecting from herself and others.

 

[The Clamp]

I think it likely she'll be placed in a secure unit 'for her own safety'. Some will argue that she doesn't deserve protection, I understand that, but she's clearly 'mentally ill' and will need protecting from herself and others.

I should think you’re right. Whatever anyone feels about the woman, the prison system is not going to want to deal with a murder in prison. Which is what would likely happen were she allowed within arms reach of a lifer.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I started reading some details on the BBC website this morning reporting what she did to the babies. I stopped reading after 3. She is up there with Hindley without question in my mind. I don't want to get into discussing degrees of evil and a league table of murderers but the babies died in a lot of pain and some of the survivers are permanently brain-damaged. A whole life sentence is very justified here.

A whole life sentence indeed. I hope you aren't suggesting I don't agree with that?

I was simply commenting negatively at an expressed wish she gets more than that (a bit of maiming seemed to be implicit), as if that's all we need to contemplate. It has always annoyed me how people emote for capital/physical retribution (what was once known as the hanging and flogging brigade) without any apparent interest in anyone taking any steps to mitigate against these things happening in the first place. The fact that she was allowed to carry on in the way she was makes me very angry.