[News] Baby murder nurse case

[portlock seagull]

I haven’t read the thread but have just been reading this;

Hospital bosses ignored months of doctors' warnings about Lucy Letby

Hospital bosses failed to investigate allegations and tried to silence doctors, BBC investigation finds.

www.bbc.co.uk

Yep, Director of Nursing will be sacked soon. The public and political fury requires further inviduals punishmed and not surprisingly. Several others have moved on, but I can’t see them being employed elsewhere again. However they’ve all made their fortunes so probably don’t need to work again. All at tax payers expense, naturally.

 

[The Clown of Pevensey Bay]

Not sure it's actually been announced whether her sentence gets served in a prison or in a secure unit yet. Whole world of difference. Hopefully a whole new world of pain

She will go to prison. There’s no mitigation or evidence of mental health problems.

 

[Simster]

Yep, Director of Nursing will be sacked soon. The public and political fury requires further inviduals punishmed and not surprisingly. Several others have moved on, but I can’t see them being employed elsewhere again. However they’ve all made their fortunes so probably don’t need to work again. All at tax payers expense, naturally.

I suspect you're completely right. In fact, my guess is that someone partly culpable will be made the scapegoat for the entire disgrace.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

She will go to prison. There’s no mitigation or evidence of mental health problems.

Yet...

 

[GT49er]

Yet...

You could probably make a case that anybody who did those wicked and cruel things to innocent and healthy little babies with a full life ahead of them must by definition be wrong in the head, so mental health issues.
Hope nobody does. She deserves prison - preferably the grimmest and roughest one available.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Evil bitch! Right up there with hindley and west! She’ll get what’s coming to her!

Wow.

That's a very misguided bit of emoting. Have you any idea what the moors murderers did to those kids? Evidently not.

It is very unhelpful to put all child killers into the same box, as if that somehow explains things. Clearly it won't help plan to avoid it happening again

Two things are needed. One is better psychometric assessment of medical trainees during training to weed out the munchausen by proxy types. Second, to change the management culture so that managers cannot cover up unusual death patterns recognized during audit (as happened here).

I prefer solutions, and prevention, to after-the-fact mob rule.

Finally, these aren't the middle ages, and having this women attacked in the prison showers solves nothing, no matter how much pleasure it may give you.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

"Emails cease forthwith" is beyond appalling. Whichever jumped-up little twat wrote that needs to be made to explain themselves in a court of law. Good luck with that

I agree. Reminds me of the sort of shit we get where I work (albeit in a far less important context). The word 'unhelpful' pops up a lot too.

 

[Mellotron]

You could probably make a case that anybody who did those wicked and cruel things to innocent and healthy little babies with a full life ahead of them must by definition be wrong in the head, so mental health issues.
Hope nobody does. She deserves prison - preferably the grimmest and roughest one available.

This is the funny thing isn't it?

If you kill babies, then by my (simple) definition, you ARE mentally ill. Only people whose brain isn't right would ever do that.

Doesn't mean she shouldn't be punished, as she still CHOSE to do horrific things, over and over again.

 

[The Clamp]

Yet...

Would any mitigating circumstances have to be declared before trial? Or can it be introduced on appeal?

I feel sorry for the solicitor that had to defend this woman.

 

[The Clamp]

This is the funny thing isn't it?

If you kill babies, then by my (simple) definition, you ARE mentally ill. Only people whose brain isn't right would ever do that.

Doesn't mean she shouldn't be punished, as she still CHOSE to do horrific things, over and over again.

Being mentally ill doesn’t necessarily exonerate you of having capacity. Which is the crucial element. Was she in control of her faculties when she committed the murders?

The fact she tried to hide her crimes and she evolved her method over a number of murders suggests that she probably had capacity.

As I say, being “mentally ill” isn’t an automatic get out of jail card .

 

[Mellotron]

Being mentally ill doesn’t necessarily exonerate you of having capacity. Which is the crucial element. Was she in control of her faculties when she committed the murders?

The fact she tried to hide her crimes and she evolved her method over a number of murders suggests that she probably had capacity.

As I say, being “mentally ill” isn’t an automatic get out of jail card .

I agree, hence my final sentence.

My query is when people say she isn't mentally ill. I would argue that anyone who does something this horrific multiple times (ie not a crime of passion moment) has mental problems.

 

[portlock seagull]

I suspect you're completely right. In fact, my guess is that someone partly culpable will be made the scapegoat for the entire disgrace.

Agree. Such is life. Her parents will be targeted. Their lives are in ruins too. People will want to blame them.

 

[The Clamp]

I agree, hence my final sentence.

My query is when people say she isn't mentally ill. I would argue that anyone who does something this horrific multiple times (ie not a crime of passion moment) has mental problems.

I agree too.

Not qualified to fathom what was going on in her mind but as you say, it’s mental illness for sure.

 

[dazzer6666]

Wow.

That's a very misguided bit of emoting. Have you any idea what the moors murderers did to those kids? Evidently not.

It is very unhelpful to put all child killers into the same box, as if that somehow explains things. Clearly it won't help plan to avoid it happening again

Two things are needed. One is better psychometric assessment of medical trainees during training to weed out the munchausen by proxy types. Second, to change the management culture so that managers cannot cover up unusual death patterns recognized during audit (as happened here).

I prefer solutions, and prevention, to after-the-fact mob rule.

Finally, these aren't the middle ages, and having this women attacked in the prison showers solves nothing, no matter how much pleasure it may give you.

TBF from a sentencing perspective the comparison isn’t unreasonable - it’s only the 4th whole life tariff handed out to a female, the others being, er West, Hindley and Dennehy.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Wow.

That's a very misguided bit of emoting. Have you any idea what the moors murderers did to those kids? Evidently not.

It is very unhelpful to put all child killers into the same box, as if that somehow explains things. Clearly it won't help plan to avoid it happening again

Two things are needed. One is better psychometric assessment of medical trainees during training to weed out the munchausen by proxy types. Second, to change the management culture so that managers cannot cover up unusual death patterns recognized during audit (as happened here).

I prefer solutions, and prevention, to after-the-fact mob rule.

Finally, these aren't the middle ages, and having this women attacked in the prison showers solves nothing, no matter how much pleasure it may give you.

Changing the management culture is key.

 

[dazzer6666]

She will go to prison. There’s no mitigation or evidence of mental health problems.

……apart from methodically killing babies

 

[Iggle Piggle]

The crime is despicable - I felt sick reading some of the stories - but the cover up is everything that is wrong with corporate senior management culture in the UK. The people speaking up are seen as problematic, seniors wants to cover it up to avoid nasty questions and families experience bereavements that could have been avoided if people cared more about their lives than reputations.

Imagine being told that the hospital could be responsible for excess baby deaths and thinking "better get this swept under the carpet" Almost as morally bankrupt as she was.

 

[The Clamp]

Just read a few of the family statements. Couldn’t finish them.

I didn’t realise her attempts at murder had left a number of children severely disabled for life.

Too upsetting to contemplate on first reading.

 

[portlock seagull]

The crime is despicable - I felt sick reading some of the stories - but the cover up is everything that is wrong with corporate senior management culture in the UK. The people speaking up are seen as problematic, seniors wants to cover it up to avoid nasty questions and families experience bereavements that could have been avoided if people cared more about their lives that reputations.

Imagine being told that the hospital could be responsible for excess baby deaths and thinking "better get this swept under the carpet" Almost as morally bankrupt as she was.

a friend told me this weekend whilst we were discussing Letsby of just such an instance. A senior nurse in wrong. Tried to blame on more junior nurse. Changed paperwork. Senior management closed ranks supporting their top nurse. Eventually she left, as a whistleblower. Now she’s an unemployed whistleblower and had to change professions. Seen it in corporate career. Why would it be any different in public sector really? Shameful though.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Awful, awful case and the punishment obviously fits the crime. Those poor kids and families.

Apologies if it's been mentioned on here before, but how was she allowed to dodge being present for sentencing? Surely if she's in custody, she should be made to go to court to 'face the music', so to speak?