[News] Baby murder nurse case

[Simster]

Agree. Such is life. Her parents will be targeted. Their lives are in ruins too. People will want to blame them.

I always think that the parents of murderers are the forgotten victims in these cases. They invariably have to move areas and they carry around the guilt and worrying that they are somehow culpable for the rest of their lives.

 

[Randy McNob]

how much is down to Tory cuts to NHS and other services, due to staff shortages / austerity which creates vacuums where such complacancy can occur?

Remember when they say "less government / smaller state" and "the nanny state" - reap what you sow

 

[Simster]

how much is down to Tory cuts to NHS and other services, due to staff shortages / austerity which creates vacuums where such complacancy can occur?

Remember when they say "less government / smaller state" and "the nanny state" - reap what you sow

Sorry, I'm as anti Tory as the next sane person. But seriously, that isn't really on. If you knew anything about the case, this vile woman was flagged after the second death. It's nothing to do with cuts.

 

[portlock seagull]

I always think that the parents of murderers are the forgotten victims in these cases. They invariably have to move areas and they carry around the guilt and worrying that they are somehow culpable for the rest of their lives.

I feel the same. Extended family similarly. Bad enough if worked with said person, people will say ‘how did you not know?’ etc.

Never forget a good friend of mine years ago getting a call at work from a fellow manager about one of the cleaners.

“We’ve got a problem?”

“Ok, what’s it about?”

“Member of staff, she’s been arrested?”

“What?! What for?”

“Murder…”

“What the heck?!!”, “What’s her name…?”

“West. Rosemary West…”

(I kid you not. True story!)

 

[The Clown of Pevensey Bay]

……apart from methodically killing babies

Hard faced journos call some cases “mad or bad” trials. If a defendant claims to have mental health issues then a court has to decide whether that was the reason or excuse for the behaviour. Letby hasn’t provided evidence of any such issues.

 

[Seagull58]

Wow.

That's a very misguided bit of emoting. Have you any idea what the moors murderers did to those kids? Evidently not.

It is very unhelpful to put all child killers into the same box, as if that somehow explains things. Clearly it won't help plan to avoid it happening again

Two things are needed. One is better psychometric assessment of medical trainees during training to weed out the munchausen by proxy types. Second, to change the management culture so that managers cannot cover up unusual death patterns recognized during audit (as happened here).

I prefer solutions, and prevention, to after-the-fact mob rule.

Finally, these aren't the middle ages, and having this women attacked in the prison showers solves nothing, no matter how much pleasure it may give you.

I started reading some details on the BBC website this morning reporting what she did to the babies. I stopped reading after 3. She is up there with Hindley without question in my mind. I don't want to get into discussing degrees of evil and a league table of murderers but the babies died in a lot of pain and some of the survivers are permanently brain-damaged. A whole life sentence is very justified here.

 

[Randy McNob]

Sorry, I'm as anti Tory as the next sane person. But seriously, that isn't really on. If you knew anything about the case, this vile woman was flagged after the second death. It's nothing to do with cuts.

if you cut staff numbers to the bare bones, where staff have to do extremely long shifts and there are less supervisors and managers to oversee others, it stands to reasons complacacency can emerge and things like this can be missed. Just like the many cases of mistreatment of kids from abusive parents which could have been prevented but social services are overstretched.

All the government care about is whether there are less foreigners doing these jobs

Austerity kills

 

[Seagull58]

Awful, awful case and the punishment obviously fits the crime. Those poor kids and families.

Apologies if it's been mentioned on here before, but how was she allowed to dodge being present for sentencing? Surely if she's in custody, she should be made to go to court to 'face the music', so to speak?

Currently not legally obliged to be there but Sunak says he will get the Law changed

 

[Si Gull]

I agree too.

Not qualified to fathom what was going on in her mind but as you say, it’s mental

Hard faced journos call some cases “mad or bad” trials. If a defendant claims to have mental health issues then a court has to decide whether that was the reason or excuse for the behaviour. Letby hasn’t provided evidence of any such issues.

This is what I don't understand. Can someone really be that evil without anyone else having an inkling? The option she went for was to try and ride it out and hope for a not guilty verdict so presumably no signs of insanity, at least from a legal perspective. Frightening that such an outwardly 'normal' person could be such a massively evil narcissist.

 

[Randy McNob]

Currently not legally obliged to be there but Sunak says he will get the Law changed

as a distraction to tackling the real issues

 

[Seagull58]

if you cut staff numbers to the bare bones, where staff have to do extremely long shifts and there are less supervisors and managers to oversee others, it stands to reasons complacacency can emerge and things like this can be missed. Just like the many cases of mistreatment of kids from abusive parents which could have been prevented but social services are overstretched.

All the government care about is whether there are less foreigners doing these jobs

Austerity kills

Thus wasn't "missed". The doctors identified the problem but were shut down by the arse-cevering managers. You are scraping the barrel hard to blame this on Tory cuts in the NHS. The hospital has had one baby death in seven years since she was removed.

 

[Seagull58]

as a distraction to tackling the real issues

Would you prefer he didn't do it?

 

[Randy McNob]

Would you prefer he didn't do it?

what does it acheive?

 

[The Clamp]

This is what I don't understand. Can someone really be that evil without anyone else having an inkling? The option she went for was to try and ride it out and hope for a not guilty verdict so presumably no signs of insanity, at least from a legal perspective. Frightening that such an outwardly 'normal' person could be such a massively evil narcissist.

I suspect there’s elements of Munchausen-by-Proxy syndrome in her mental landscape.

As I have talked about on here before so I won’t go into it again but I was a victim of my Mother’s MbP and it took over a decade before any doctor even questioned what she was doing. My mother was also a nurse.

But that’s slightly off topic, my point being that even professionals can miss things, personality traits, tells, and red flags.

People just refuse to believe such a caring person in a caring profession could be doing such things. Hence… “not nice Lucy”?!

Even when people point things out some will refuse to believe. None of my family will even entertain the idea of the things my Mum was doing to me. They refuse to believe it and Think I’m being over-dramatic. And she’s been dead over a decade.

 

[Seagull58]

what does it acheive?

I would say that victims 'families have the right to see the perpetrator receive his/her sentence in court. Anecdotally that seems to be the opinion of the majority of the public. Do you disagree?

 

[portlock seagull]

I suspect there’s elements of Munchausen-by-Proxy syndrome in her mental landscape.

As I have talked about on here before so I won’t go into it again but I was a victim of my Mother’s MbP and it took over a decade before any doctor even questioned what she was doing. My mother was also a nurse.

But that’s slightly off topic, my point being that even professionals can miss things, personality traits, tells, and red flags.

People just refuse to believe such a caring person in a caring profession could be doing such things. Hence… “not nice Lucy”?!

Even when people point things out some will refuse to believe. None of my family will even entertain the idea of the things my Mum was doing to me. They refuse to believe it and Think I’m being over-dramatic. And she’s been dead over a decade.

On a much less serious but similar matter, many in my family refused to believe my elderly parents long terminal illnesses when I told them what was coming down the line (parents buried heads in sand too, their prerogative though) I was constantly dismissed as ‘dramatic’ or ‘you’re not a doctor’ (but had consulted one) etc. People will believe what they want to believe I guess. How else do you explain Trump?!!

 

[Guinness Boy]

what does it acheive?

how much is down to Tory cuts to NHS and other services, due to staff shortages / austerity which creates vacuums where such complacancy can occur?

Remember when they say "less government / smaller state" and "the nanny state" - reap what you sow

if you cut staff numbers to the bare bones, where staff have to do extremely long shifts and there are less supervisors and managers to oversee others, it stands to reasons complacacency can emerge and things like this can be missed. Just like the many cases of mistreatment of kids from abusive parents which could have been prevented but social services are overstretched.

All the government care about is whether there are less foreigners doing these jobs

Austerity kills

as a distraction to tackling the real issues

This isn't the time or place feller. Have a break from the thread.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Would you prefer he didn't do it?

It rarely happens and isn't a major problem compared to millions of us suffering from sewage in the sea, or climate change etc.
It could even be classed as posturing for a populist opinion.

This is a good blog from a barrister explaining why.

 

[Si Gull]

I suspect there’s elements of Munchausen-by-Proxy syndrome in her mental landscape.

As I have talked about on here before so I won’t go into it again but I was a victim of my Mother’s MbP and it took over a decade before any doctor even questioned what she was doing. My mother was also a nurse.

But that’s slightly off topic, my point being that even professionals can miss things, personality traits, tells, and red flags.

People just refuse to believe such a caring person in a caring profession could be doing such things. Hence… “not nice Lucy”?!

Even when people point things out some will refuse to believe. None of my family will even entertain the idea of the things my Mum was doing to me. They refuse to believe it and Think I’m being over-dramatic. And she’s been dead over a decade.

So sorry to hear about your awful experience with MbP. I agree that it may have played a part in Letby's actions, perhaps it started with that but developed into something much worse. Just horrendous, whatever the reasons.

 

[The Clamp]

On a much less serious but similar matter, many in my family refused to believe my elderly parents long terminal illnesses when I told them what was coming down the line (parents buried heads in sand too, their prerogative though) I was constantly dismissed as ‘dramatic’ or ‘you’re not a doctor’ (but had consulted one) etc. People will believe what they want to believe I guess. How else do you explain Trump?!!

Absolutely.

I suppose some of it is human nature and some of it is a preferred ignorance .

Sorry to hear of your parents illness.