Asians in racist shocker!!

[Buzzer]

You may be able to do sums but you can't do quotes. The first quote IS NOT from the Quran. Where did you get it from? If you innsist it is then give me the chapter and verse. The quote isn't even in your reference section.

So... no apologies.

umm...bollocks.

The heading is 'References to Jews in the Koran'

The first link clearly states:

The Koran is divided into 114 chapters called suras. The following are translations from the Koran of passages related to Jews. As in any translation, the original language is not always easy to render in English, and this particular translation uses more temperate language than some others. Sometimes the specific mention of the Jews is not explanatory, so we then include the next relevant lines. Some of the disparaging references are highlighted in bold.

As to my reference it is referred to in 5.33 The Dinner Table.

I assume that you read the link didn't you?

Can I also assume that you accept the bit on gays?

 

[readingstockport]

umm...bollocks.

The heading is 'References to Jews in the Koran'

The first link clearly states:

The Koran is divided into 114 chapters called suras. The following are translations from the Koran of passages related to Jews. As in any translation, the original language is not always easy to render in English, and this particular translation uses more temperate language than some others. Sometimes the specific mention of the Jews is not explanatory, so we then include the next relevant lines. Some of the disparaging references are highlighted in bold.

As to my reference it is referred to in 5.33 The Dinner Table.

I assume that you read the link didn't you?

Can I also assume that you accept the bit on gays?

Erm, to quote you bollocks.

You provide a link to a jewish intepretation of the verses of the koran and hold that up as some kind of proof that the verses are in fact what they are claimed to be. Absolute crap. If that is the extent of your deductive questioning I'm not surprise dyou think the shite you self-evidently do.

As for the gay thing.

Lets ask again shall we. Instead of linking to a site that say that Islam is anti-gay provide me a link to the verses in the koran that say that. Show me the verses where it is said that Muslims have to kill Jews and gays and I will apologise to you, until then I will assume you are talking the usual right wing crap.

Edit for spelling and to add.

I can link you to any number of sites where right wing christians will denounce jews, gays, muslims and just about anyone and anything. That does not mean that christianity itself does so or even that the bible does so. It means some right wing nutters have, as usual, got hold of the wrong end of the stick and perverted things to their own ends.

 

[Parson Henry]

Cannot you guys settle this through Rock, paper, scissors?

 

[coventrygull]

I thought that most religions were anti gay.

Also didn't the Catholic Church create anti-semitism

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

umm...bollocks.

The heading is 'References to Jews in the Koran'

The first link clearly states:

The Koran is divided into 114 chapters called suras. The following are translations from the Koran of passages related to Jews. As in any translation, the original language is not always easy to render in English, and this particular translation uses more temperate language than some others. Sometimes the specific mention of the Jews is not explanatory, so we then include the next relevant lines. Some of the disparaging references are highlighted in bold.

As to my reference it is referred to in 5.33 The Dinner Table.

I assume that you read the link didn't you?

Can I also assume that you accept the bit on gays?

I read this and then wonder why some 10,000 Jews live in Iran. Granted they are not allowed to hold public office, and their voting rights are somehwat curtailed (par for the course for unbelievers), BUT they are allowed to worship in peace and are considered an important part of Iranian life. Now forgive me if I'm wrong but I would have thought of all the Islamic countries in the world, that the Iranians would have bumped them of years ago ..... Now the Iranian view of Israel is another matter ...

 

[Biscuit]

I thought that most religions were anti gay.

Also didn't the Catholic Church create anti-semitism

I believe your right. But lets not let the facts spoil a perfectly good argument.

Everyone needs to be a little understanding of everybody else religions and faiths.. having a joke is fine, but no when to draw the line. Smile, look for peoples better qualities and live life with a smile on your face..

failing that, look for differences and let them consume you untill you become a bitter, twisted shell of a human being.. its up to you.

 

[Buzzer]

I read this and then wonder why some 10,000 Jews live in Iran. Granted they are not allowed to hold public office, and their voting rights are somehwat curtailed (par for the course for unbelievers), BUT they are allowed to worship in peace and are considered an important part of Iranian life. Now forgive me if I'm wrong but I would have thought of all the Islamic countries in the world, that the Iranians would have bumped them of years ago ..... Now the Iranian view of Israel is another matter ...

but you asked to state where in the Koran that the murder of Jews was justified. I have done this.

Your mention of Iran not killing Jews soes not stop it being in the Koran.

 

[Biscuit]

I read this and then wonder why some 10,000 Jews live in Iran. Granted they are not allowed to hold public office, and their voting rights are somehwat curtailed (par for the course for unbelievers), BUT they are allowed to worship in peace and are considered an important part of Iranian life. Now forgive me if I'm wrong but I would have thought of all the Islamic countries in the world, that the Iranians would have bumped them of years ago ..... Now the Iranian view of Israel is another matter ...

So unbelievers are seen as second class citizens? I don't see how you can play a part in iranian society if you are not allowed to hold office or vote?

 

[readingstockport]

but you asked to state where in the Koran that the murder of Jews was justified. I have done this.

Your mention of Iran not killing Jews soes not stop it being in the Koran.

No you HAVEN'T. You have linked to a site where someone interprets what is written to say it means Jews. It does not say Jews. I suggest you go back and read what is written in the koran instead of what your mind, and others, wishes to have been written.

 

[Buzzer]

I thought that most religions were anti gay.

Also didn't the Catholic Church create anti-semitism

If by anti-semitism you mean hatred or the persecution of Jews then weren't the Egyptians doing this by enslaving them thousands of years before the catholic church?

Jews have been persecuted and Christians have persecuted them horribly. We don't anymore and have laws to stop it.

 

[Biscuit]

CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!

 

[bhaexpress]

No you HAVEN'T. You have linked to a site where someone interprets what is written to say it means Jews. It does not say Jews. I suggest you go back and read what is written in the koran instead of what your mind, and others, wishes to have been written.

Actually that interpretation is accepted by a lot of Muslims which what Buzzer was implying. Mind you what's a Jihad all about ?

 

[coventrygull]

CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!

Yes

The priests have tremendously harmed the human heart, human consciousness. They have put this poisonous idea in man that life is something ugly.... I am bringing a new vision of religion to the world. Accept life in its multidimensions, enjoy it, celebrate it, rejoice in it. Renunciation is not my way, but rejoicing. Fasting is not my way, but feasting. And to be festive is to be religious. My definition of religion is the festive dimension. Celebrate your sex, it is a God-given gift. Celebrate your body, it is God's grace. Celebrate each moment that has been given to you, each breath, each heartbeat. It is such a benediction." OSHO

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

So unbelievers are seen as second class citizens? I don't see how you can play a part in iranian society if you are not allowed to hold office or vote?

The point I was making was that if the Koran insists that Muslims kill Jews then why hasn't it happen in Iran, which is an Islamic republic last time I looked.

I might be wrong on the voting bit as there is a Jewish MP, but your point is well made.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Actually that interpretation is accepted by a lot of Muslims which what Buzzer was implying.

... alternativley many Muslims do not.

 

[Buzzer]

No you HAVEN'T. You have linked to a site where someone interprets what is written to say it means Jews. It does not say Jews. I suggest you go back and read what is written in the koran instead of what your mind, and others, wishes to have been written.

okay - let's try this then shall we?

Direct from the Koran online:

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=158021

This is theUniv. of Michigan copy of the Koran online. Fairly authorative and non-partisan.

5.64 states "And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection; whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers."

So the jews make mischief. Important point this.

5.33 states "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,"

So mischief makers should be murdered and if the Koran calls Jews mischief makers then does it follows that Jews should be murdered.

I've checked 8 online Korans and they all translate the 2 passages the same.

QED


edit - This is why I believe the shit that I do. What's your excuse?

 

[Parson Henry]

A running race...winner takes the debate?

Yes?

 

[The Laughing Bluebird]

Had our whole shift at work wetting ourselves with laughter.....

I find that absolutely amazing.

I don't mean your suggestion that people had wet themselves laughing at such an unfunny newspaper story. I'm talking about the fact that you've got a job.

Astonishing.

 

[Parson Henry]

I find that absolutely amazing.

I don't mean your suggestion that people had wet themselves laughing at such an unfunny newspaper story. I'm talking about the fact that you've got a job.

Astonishing.

I hope you are good at running...

 

[readingstockport]

okay - let's try this then shall we?

5.64 states something about mischief.

So the jews make mischief. Important point this.

5.33 states Something else about mischief.

So mischief makers should be murdered and if the Koran calls Jews mischief makers then does it follows that Jews should be murdered.

I've checked 8 online Korans and they all translate the 2 passages the same.

QED

Ok, you've taken 2 isolated verses and linked them to get to the meaning you wanted to. I do not accept that your interpretation of the verses and a connection between them is valid but I accxept that you do.

However by posting that you have implicitly acknowledged that nowhere in the koran is there an explicit instruction to kill jews. Only an interpretation by people of what is written.

Lets call this one a draw for now shall we.

5.33 incidentally states that 'or they shall be imprisoned' so it explcitly does not say Jews must be killed.