[Politics] Are Labour going to turn this country around?

[Uncle Spielberg]

Best we can hope for is 300,000 per annum by 2029, I would call that success.

It’ll take an age to get this up and running. Planning reform, permissions, some compulsory land purchase for new towns, the other resources. And as @WATFORD zero would correctly point out, the tradesmen, with the restrictions of Brexit.

Not a chance for the reasons given

 

[Weststander]

Not a chance for the reasons given

If not up n running by 2029, that’s a disaster for the 20 to 40 year olds in the uk with awful £££££££ housing prospects. I’m talking a mental health crisis, giving hope in life, suicide risk. Not exaggerating.

Starmer/Reeves must make it happen.

Not blaming it on them. We’ve had 28 years of selfish nimbies destroying the hopes of those without a home / left in the sky high rents world.

 

[chip]

Not blaming it on them. We’ve had 28 years of selfish nimbies destroying the hopes of those without a home / left in the sky high rents world.

I'm a nimby because the system has led to this appearing in the river near my home. Shit pumped into chalk spring rivers (one of the rarest habitats in the world) because the infrastructuire can't cope with the over development. This has now been going on for >14 years. Do you really want to cary on making the country more toxic? Lots of perfectly valid reasons to object to developments, especially if you live in a nice place and don't want it to end up looking like Portslade. I'm not against development, just stupid targets that are badly thought through and lead to low quality development with negative environmental impacts. This government doesn't seem any better than the last one in considering the wider implications of individual actions/policy. Blair recognised this and called it joined up government, that would be nice to see.

 

[Weststander]

I'm a nimby because the system has led to this appearing in the river near my home. Shit pumped into chalk spring rivers (one of the rarest habitats in the world) because the infrastructuire can't cope with the over development. This has now been going on for >14 years. Do you really want to cary on making the country more toxic? Lots of perfectly valid reasons to object to developments, especially if you live in a nice place and don't want it to end up looking like Portslade. I'm not against development, just stupid targets that are badly thought through and lead to low quality development with negative environmental impacts. This government doesn't seem any better than the last one in considering the wider implications of individual actions/policy. Blair recognised this and called it joined up government, that would be nice to see.

View attachment 194899

Infrastructure was mentioned above.

Our population has increased by an unprecedented 9m since 1997. The politicians of all colours decided that was fine, but then let down the next gens on housing.

There are always reasons to oppose housing, urban and urban fringe, there’s a ‘cottage’ industry of retired and ‘working’ from home people sitting pretty who pride themselves in neighbourhood groups as being very switched on in the means to oppose/delay housing proposals. Often with an arrogant “Why don’t they just build more flats in city centres?”.

Starmer/Reeves (they say) are the first people who’ve come along with care for the housing have-nots.

 

[Triggaaar]

Economics anyone?

 

[slimes]

Don't tell Starmer he'll get you arrested

Have to agree! You'll get Solitary too! We are now mini russia/china!
Silencing the innocent by jailing them and allowing the wrong uns go free.

Post office masters still waiting for compensation and the people who put them there are Free!

 

[beorhthelm]

Economics anyone?

dont know whether to or , they've been doing QT for months, why now does it have an impact on bond market now? dont expect an honest answer from Murphy, he believes government doesnt need to borrow, create money on demand, and upset by everything the BoE does.

 

[Triggaaar]

dont know whether to or , they've been doing QT for months, why now does it have an impact on bonds? dont expect an honest answer from Murphy, he believes government doesnt need to borrow, create money on demand, and upset by everything the BoE does.

Indeed. But if the government want the economy to grow (and they've said they do) then I'm not sure why they're implementing quantitative tightening?

 

[beorhthelm]

Indeed. But if the government want the economy to grow (and they've said they do) then I'm not sure why they're implementing quantitative tightening?

because they said they would do this, so that the QE wasn't disguised money printing, and helps reduce inflation by drawing money out of the system (at bank balance sheet level, rather than general economy).
growth should come from positive economic policy encouraging investment and spending, increasing productive capacity and output, not worrying about secondary market for government bonds.

 

[portslade seagull]

This could be a great opportunity to skill up the nation with German style apprenticeships. Of real meaning. Our equivalent is almost a token gesture. UK employers shy away from it, including businesses making big profits. Always chasing the quick buck.

When I lost my job at KTM many moons ago after finishing an apprenticeship ( there was 40 of us all laid off ) a few of us were pushed by the job centre to take a building course at School Rd in hove. We had a choice of bricklaying, plumbing or plastering or they would potentially stop the Giro's. It wasn't my cup of tea and went back to engineering.
Not sure why any government cannot do that now

 

[Weststander]

When I lost my job at KTM many moons ago after finishing an apprenticeship ( there was 40 of us all laid off ) a few of us were pushed by the job centre to take a building course at School Rd in hove. We had a choice of bricklaying, plumbing or plastering or they would potentially stop the Giro's. It wasn't my cup of tea and went back to engineering.
Not sure why any government cannot do that now

Were you with KTM at their very end?

 

[portslade seagull]

Were you with KTM at their very end?

I left in the cup final year 1983. Later went back as a BT engineer and all that was left was the main machine shop and about 50 workers. Brighty killed it off

 

[WATFORD zero]

When I lost my job at KTM many moons ago after finishing an apprenticeship ( there was 40 of us all laid off ) a few of us were pushed by the job centre to take a building course at School Rd in hove. We had a choice of bricklaying, plumbing or plastering or they would potentially stop the Giro's. It wasn't my cup of tea and went back to engineering.
Not sure why any government cannot do that now

Played football for KTM for many years although I never worked for them. I was at Gross Cash Registers over the road after being trained at School road

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Infrastructure was mentioned above.

Our population has increased by an unprecedented 9m since 1997. The politicians of all colours decided that was fine, but then let down the next gens on housing.

There are always reasons to oppose housing, urban and urban fringe, there’s a ‘cottage’ industry of retired and ‘working’ from home people sitting pretty who pride themselves in neighbourhood groups as being very switched on in the means to oppose/delay housing proposals. Often with an arrogant “Why don’t they just build more flats in city centres?”.

Starmer/Reeves (they say) are the first people who’ve come along with care for the housing have-nots.

We have a group down here opposed to building on green farmland, which we support.
The plan we oppose is a piss take, and the 'land owner' is anonymous, registered in the Isle of Man.
Meanwhile there are thousands of houses round her being built, and we don't object.
Needs must.
It isn't simply all of one or all of the other.

I realise that Blair was relaxed about immigration and that may have been unwise.
Albeit it was nearly all Polish Plumbers etc., people coming here to address an unmet need.
The discussion that could have been had is 'do you want to import labour or will you take on the unfilled jobs?'.
I guess Blair assumed that the answer would go without saying (or asking).
That's a far cry from his tory successors who continued to be relaxed about numbers entering, and yet publicly weaponized it for political purposes.
Just like 'the boats' which expanded like mould on old bread during the May/Johnson.Truss/Sunk era.
Johnson should have said 'look what we have done, now we are going to have to fix it'.
Instead he and Sunk came up with madcap schemes, then weaponsized Labour's derision.

Sorry to get party political, but blame where it's due....and all that.

 

[portslade seagull]

Played football for KTM for many years although I never worked for them. I was at Gross Cash Registers over the road after being trained at School road

KTM used to have a good team back then and they used to get time off work to play. It was heaving up there with all the different firms. KTM used to run buses to and from work, think they had just under 3000 there with shift working. Did you ever go to the xmas parties at Chubbs ( I think it was them where Asda is now ) as an 18yr old they were great

 

[WATFORD zero]

KTM used to have a good team back then and they used to get time off work to play. It was heaving up there with all the different firms. KTM used to run buses to and from work, think they had just under 3000 there with shift working. Did you ever go to the xmas parties at Chubbs ( I think it was them where Asda is now ) as an 18yr old they were great

The Asda site was ITT Creed IIRC.

Chubbs took over Gross (where the police station and storage is now) and I'm afraid I was long gone by then (being in school road and Gross about 1977-79). I remember all the buses lined up along crowhurst road when the hooters went off though. I played for KTM from about 81 until, I guess they got taken over. Was it FMT or Boc Edwards, I obviously don't know having just played football for them, but I remember the names on the shirts

There is an NSC poster who is a complete historian of those times (and I never thought I would say that) but I'm not going to name him

 

[Weststander]

We have a group down here opposed to building on green farmland, which we support.
The plan we oppose is a piss take, and the 'land owner' is anonymous, registered in the Isle of Man.
Meanwhile there are thousands of houses round her being built, and we don't object.
Needs must.
It isn't simply all of one or all of the other.

I realise that Blair was relaxed about immigration and that may have been unwise.
Albeit it was nearly all Polish Plumbers etc., people coming here to address an unmet need.
The discussion that could have been had is 'do you want to import labour or will you take on the unfilled jobs?'.
I guess Blair assumed that the answer would go without saying (or asking).
That's a far cry from his tory successors who continued to be relaxed about numbers entering, and yet publicly weaponized it for political purposes.
Just like 'the boats' which expanded like mould on old bread during the May/Johnson.Truss/Sunk era.
Johnson should have said 'look what we have done, now we are going to have to fix it'.
Instead he and Sunk came up with madcap schemes, then weaponsized Labour's derision.

Sorry to get party political, but blame where it's due....and all that.

There are plenty of people including here who say never build on countryside, ever. Usually trotting out build flats in city centres or compulsory purchase empty homes. Millions of new homes are needed, now.

Have to disagree about the party political stuff. Blair/Brown/Coalition/Cameron made the decision (or stood back) to allow vast population increase. With next to no strategic planning on housing, new towns, roads, railways, schools, gp’s, hospital places. Very laissez faire, a far cry from from red and blue governments after 1945. The result …. you and I made paper money from equity, whilst vast numbers of Brits without a very comfortable Dad to help them out are stuffed. With huge housing costs, sofa surfing. This absolutely didn’t start in June 2020. Land Registry inflation data for Sussex from 1995 to 2008 beggars belief. Home owners saw quadruple house price inflation for just doing nothing.

 

[portslade seagull]

The Asda site was ITT Creed IIRC.

Chubbs took over Gross (where the police station and storage is now) and I'm afraid I was long gone by then (being in school road and Gross about 1977-79). I remember all the buses lined up along crowhurst road when the hooters went off though. I played for KTM from about 81 until, I guess they got taken over. Was it FMT or Boc Edwards, I obviously don't know having just played football for them, but I remember the names on the shirts

There is an NSC poster who is a complete historian of those times (and I never thought I would say that) but I'm not going to name him

Yeah I started in 79. It was still KTM when I left in 83. A few went to Edward's in Shoreham when they had about 6 units. Was there a Mr Humphreys at school Rd when u where there

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There are plenty of people including here who say never build on countryside, ever. Usually trotting out build flats in city centres or compulsory purchase empty homes. Millions of new homes are needed, now.

Have to disagree about the party political stuff. Blair/Brown/Coalition/Cameron made the decision (or stood back) to allow vast population increase. With next to no strategic planning on housing, new towns, roads, railways, schools, gp’s, hospital places. Very laissez faire, a far cry from from red and blue governments after 1945. The result …. you and I made paper money from equity, whilst vast numbers of Brits without a very comfortable Dad to help them out are stuffed. With huge housing costs, sofa surfing. This absolutely didn’t start in June 2020. Land Registry inflation data for Sussex from 1995 to 2008 beggars belief. Home owners saw quadruple house price inflation for just doing nothing.

I accept the level of tomfoolery and delusion will vary.
Here, pretty right-wing thoughtful sensible.
Brighton, big city, a broad spectrum of insight from pragmatic to nettle-weave underpants.

 

[dsr-burnley]

There are plenty of people including here who say never build on countryside, ever. Usually trotting out build flats in city centres or compulsory purchase empty homes. Millions of new homes are needed, now.

Have to disagree about the party political stuff. Blair/Brown/Coalition/Cameron made the decision (or stood back) to allow vast population increase. With next to no strategic planning on housing, new towns, roads, railways, schools, gp’s, hospital places. Very laissez faire, a far cry from from red and blue governments after 1945. The result …. you and I made paper money from equity, whilst vast numbers of Brits without a very comfortable Dad to help them out are stuffed. With huge housing costs, sofa surfing. This absolutely didn’t start in June 2020. Land Registry inflation data for Sussex from 1995 to 2008 beggars belief. Home owners saw quadruple house price inflation for just doing nothing.

It's worse than simply having no strategic planning. Governments of all colours made plans not to allow housebuilding. It bugs me that Reeves said that in order to facilitate housebuilding, they would employ 30,000 more planning officers. This is bunkum - planning officers' primary effect is to stop houses being built, not to encourage them.

House prices rise because there aren't enough houses for the people that want them. (And also because such a lot of people have more money and can afford them.) If there are 50 houses for sale in the town and 100 people who want them and can afford to buy them, then they will start to outbid each other and prices would rise. If there were 100 houses for sale and 100 people to buy them, then prices wouldn't rise.

I reckon what they need to do is build some modern prefabs. Cheap and cheerful, mass produced, built off-site and assembled on the spot. It's the quickest way to provide more accommodation for the rapidly increasing population, while not affecting existing houses so badly that negative equity becomes epidemic. I dare say there would have to be complications like maximum shelf life or contributions to replacing them, short leaseholds, perhaps primarily to be used for social housing (ie. housing benefit), something like that. But we must have more houses.