[Albion] Appalling Quality All Round - Dreadful

[zefarelly]

Surely loaning out White was done precisely to develop him. Next year we get a battle-hardened player who will have learnt a lot playing at a decent level under a great coach.

Yes, our decent level, which is championship standard.

 

[herecomesaregular]

Incredible levels of tosh on this thread. Agree it was a poor game. However, not unusual when stakes are so high, both teams are on a poor run (Watford's revival has stuttered) and confidence is fragile. Of two teams playing very poorly we were easily the better and we were at least positive - Watford had a lucky break combined with good skill on one occasion and that was it. Thankfully, we also had a lucky break for once too (well, including West Ham we've had a few recently).
It's not surprising that Duffy and Burn looked very rusty (should they have been in the team, debatable). I was glad Solly was starting and Mooy more central. Despite being poor Mooy could have scored with a good effort.
Trossard gets some grief for his first half but I recognise what someone else cleverly noted earlier - when he's isolated he's anonymous but when he is closely surrounded by other stripes he becomes much more involved and influential and while he wasn't great 2nd half there was a notable improvement. I think getting him playing like this (also similar to when he came on as supersub earlier in the season and was amazeballs) is crucial - over to you Potter.

I am disappointed as to where we are but not disillusioned and don't agree at all that we have dreadful quality. More that we have very low confidence at the moment. I thought instilling this was one of Potter's great man management qualities so let's see if he can restore it.

Disappointed with the moaners and the boo-ers (some in NW), to me they obviously weren't around during the proper shite times of the 90s.

 

[7oaksgull]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2X7ElEXFKiE

Andy Naylor was attempting to gain some interest in his article to get his subscription rate up by implying that Ashworth is influencing the first team etc. Here’s an interview from early October. All seems sensible to me and fans from other clubs seem to think that this is what their clubs are missing.

 

[doogie004]

Which points are you disputing?

4 points off top 10 - fact
Dominating possession in almost every game after spending last year on the back foot - fact
Lamptey is pacey - fact
Mac Allister likes to burst beyond the strikers - fact

Dominating possession lol you mean playing the ball around the back or keeping it our own half . Counted one occasion we played 25 passes to get to the half what line boring !
Mac Allister hardly been playing premier league standards but fingers crossed
4 points off the top ten might as well be a thousand seems miles away


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[LamieRobertson]

Incredible levels of tosh on this thread. Agree it was a poor game. However, not unusual when stakes are so high, both teams are on a poor run (Watford's revival has stuttered) and confidence is fragile. Of two teams playing very poorly we were easily the better and we were at least positive - Watford had a lucky break combined with good skill on one occasion and that was it. Thankfully, we also had a lucky break for once too (well, including West Ham we've had a few recently).
It's not surprising that Duffy and Burn looked very rusty (should they have been in the team, debatable). I was glad Solly was starting and Mooy more central. Despite being poor Mooy could have scored with a good effort.
Trossard gets some grief for his first half but I recognise what someone else cleverly noted earlier - when he's isolated he's anonymous but when he is closely surrounded by other stripes he becomes much more involved and influential and while he wasn't great 2nd half there was a notable improvement. I think getting him playing like this (also similar to when he came on as supersub earlier in the season and was amazeballs) is crucial - over to you Potter.

I am disappointed as to where we are but not disillusioned and don't agree at all that we have dreadful quality. More that we have very low confidence at the moment. I thought instilling this was one of Potter's great man management qualities so let's see if he can restore it.

Disappointed with the moaners and the boo-ers (some in NW), to me they obviously weren't around during the proper shite times of the 90s.

Poor post too much common sense

 

[Guinness Boy]

Incredible levels of tosh on this thread. Agree it was a poor game. However, not unusual when stakes are so high, both teams are on a poor run (Watford's revival has stuttered) and confidence is fragile. Of two teams playing very poorly we were easily the better and we were at least positive - Watford had a lucky break combined with good skill on one occasion and that was it. Thankfully, we also had a lucky break for once too (well, including West Ham we've had a few recently).
It's not surprising that Duffy and Burn looked very rusty (should they have been in the team, debatable). I was glad Solly was starting and Mooy more central. Despite being poor Mooy could have scored with a good effort.
Trossard gets some grief for his first half but I recognise what someone else cleverly noted earlier - when he's isolated he's anonymous but when he is closely surrounded by other stripes he becomes much more involved and influential and while he wasn't great 2nd half there was a notable improvement. I think getting him playing like this (also similar to when he came on as supersub earlier in the season and was amazeballs) is crucial - over to you Potter.

I am disappointed as to where we are but not disillusioned and don't agree at all that we have dreadful quality. More that we have very low confidence at the moment. I thought instilling this was one of Potter's great man management qualities so let's see if he can restore it.

You see, you say it's tosh and yet I agree with every point of yours I've bolded. In fact these are really where I was last night. Our good players are playing very poorly and our selection policy can be bizzare. And the man in charge was supposedly put there because of his motivational skills. Can't say we looked that motivated yesterday.

Disappointed with the moaners and the boo-ers (some in NW), to me they obviously weren't around during the proper shite times of the 90s.

I was certainly there in the 90s and I never boo our players during the game. I agree we need to get behind them in the ground. But when you charge people £50 for a single match ticket, when you charge them £5 a time to reprint a forgotten ST card, when you prioritise tourists over long time fans, when you move fans without their consent and when you regard them as a customer first and fan second, don't be surprised when they complain.

 

[vegster]

View attachment 120005

Thanks, my point entirely. Of course, had this happened at our end there would have been three Albion defenders watching the Watford man slide it in.

 

[7oaksgull]

I was certainly there in the 90s and I never boo our players during the game. I agree we need to get behind them in the ground. But when you charge people £50 for a single match ticket, when you charge them £5 a time to reprint a forgotten ST card, when you prioritise tourists over long time fans, when you move fans without their consent and when you regard them as a customer first and fan second, don't be surprised when they complain.[/QUOTE]

But a season ticket for the North Stand will work out at £28.68 per game next year. And that includes your match travel! It will be even cheaper per game if we are in the Championship as so many seem to think that’s where we will be playing! What are you saying? If it’s cheaper then no one will complain about yesterday’s performance?

 

[Bakero]

Dominating possession lol you mean playing the ball around the back or keeping it our own half .

I mean having more of the ball than our opponents. Obviously, it's what you do with it that counts but it's certainly easier on the eye than the backs to the wall stuff we put up with last year.

Mac Allister hardly been playing premier league standards but fingers crossed

Agreed.

4 points off the top ten might as well be a thousand seems miles away

It seems like 4 points because it is just 4 points. Argue as much as you like but we're about as close to the top half as we are to the bottom 3.

 

[Goldstone1976]

...But also he has a MAJOR say in the first team and the article also says he and Potter do not always agree. And this is DISRUPTIVE. Take any large, corporate organisation and put in someone who is able to contradict and undermine another senior staff member and you're asking for trouble. I believe Hughton was undermined and Naylor's article suggests that Potter and Ashworth do not always agree. Do they do this in private? Is it all harmonious in the end?

Yep - this is exactly the point I was making. In the public statements that have been made by the club and by Ashworth, there is clear overlap between his role and Potter’s. That is, as you say, simply asking for trouble - especially when the organisation is in a hole. Such circumstances need clear leadership and for all employees (including the players) to know exactly who is in charge.

It’s also, imo, not a coincidence that Potter is Head Coach, not Manager. It’s not credible that that decision was made arbitrarily and without thought. What then are the differences in responsibility and accountabilty between the two job titles in the BHAFC environment?

Finally, as you say, the common denominator in terms of front line influence on the team/squad is Ashworth. Is it his fault? No idea - but there is reasonably strong circumstantial evidence that he’s a significant contributing factor to our current situation.

How then did we do so relatively well in the first 10 games of the season? Put harshly, and perhaps incorrectly (but plausibly), could it be that it took that period of time for the dynamics of the Potter:Ashworth relationship to be solidified and for Ashworth to assert his seniority and will? Is Potter the ‘Punch’ to Ashworth’s puppet master?

Dunno. But it’s not impossible.

 

[Guinness Boy]

But a season ticket for the North Stand will work out at £28.68 per game next year. And that includes your match travel! It will be even cheaper per game if we are in the Championship as so many seem to think that’s where we will be playing! What are you saying? If it’s cheaper then no one will complain about yesterday’s performance?

No, I'm saying that yesterday - from both sides and ref if you bothered reading and understanding the OP - was League Two quality at Image Rights Protecting, Charge You For Everything, Take Away Your Bottle Top, Change The Kit Every Season, Bring In The Tourists, Move The Kickoff Time prices.

You can't fit 23,000 in the North Stand and you can barely buy a game by game ticket in there - and certainly not at £28.68.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

I ask you the same question as the other two. If we are supposed to be developing our own players why bring in Webster and loan out White?

I suspect we didn’t know whether White was good enough at the time of loaning him and the intention was to have him and Webster playing together next season.

 

[Machiavelli]

The ref was awful. We and Watford are in a fight for survival. Watford had a decent enough game strategy to get something from the game. We really aren't up to much at breaking teams down that get their players behind the ball.
And yet, there's a danger at being reactive after games. I've seen worse performances by us, and worse games since we've been in the PL.
Yesterday, for instance had:
-- Capoue and Doucoure, both good PL players, combining to snuff out one of our attacks, and launch a great counter-attack and finish (however poor Duffy was at defending it)
-- Foster making a cracking save from Mooy (I could also include his distribution, which really is so much better than Ryan's ...)
-- ... although there was that long pass to Trossard, which just makes you think that we need to play more directly every now and again just to make us less predictable (it's being predictable -- whether tippy-tappy Potterball, or what transpired to be the dire fare served up by Hughton last season -- that's the problem in this division; predictability is what opposition managers can swot aside with ease)
-- two brilliant fizzed in crosses from Jahanbakhsh (one that our old, slow 36+yo CF couldn't get near; the other that evinced a sublime finish)

In contrast, I'll give you most of what we had to endure for the second half of last season, and that's not forgetting what smash-and-grabs we achieved with those three 1-0s in the first half of the season, all of which rank as truly awful PL spectacles. I can also offer up Huddersfield and West Brom away in our first PL campaign. Turgid.

Overall, we're in a scrap, and my view is that the bookies (or their punters) have it badly wrong with their relegation odds. We've come off a really poor run of results, having played all our relegation rivals in a short space of time. It's difficult to find positives. But really that's what PL football is like for a club like ours. There is a top six, or eight, and the rest are just scrabbling around for survival. It's never going to be edifying. The Championship is just a much more exciting league, and a more pleasurable one to exist in.

I'll reserve judgment on Ashworth and, despite the cogent reasoning you've offered on this thread, your comments probably say more about your frame of mind than what went on on the pitch yesterday.

 

[Machiavelli]

I suspect we didn’t know whether White was good enough at the time of loaning him and the intention was to have him and Webster playing together next season.

Well answered. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[Weststander]

We're only 4 points from being in the top 10 with a £200m squad playing football we could have only dreamed about last season.

We just need a pacey right back who delivers quality into the box and an attacking midfielder who makes those defence splitting third man runs.

Oh, hang on.

Don't get all the negativity on here all the time.

It's in the balance whether we stay up, hopefully we do.

Months of going to the Amex and seeing just a single PL win has an attritional effect on many supporters in the end. Personally I don't blame Potter ... we have a bottom 6 squad, so it's to be expected.

 

[essbee1]

It's in the balance whether we stay up, hopefully we do.

Months of going to the Amex and seeing just a single PL win has an attritional effect on many supporters in the end. Personally I don't blame Potter ... we have a bottom 6 squad, so it's to be expected.

Ultimately, it's a choice I guess. Would you rather be comfortable watching us turn a lot of teams over in the Championship or struggling
against teams in the PL? I would rather struggle in the PL and try to ensure we become a Burnley or a Leicester City, even though it's
painful to see us play the way we're playing right now.

 

[Weststander]

Ultimately, it's a choice I guess. Would you rather be comfortable watching us turn a lot of teams over in the Championship or struggling
against teams in the PL? I would rather struggle in the PL and try to ensure we become a Burnley or a Leicester City, even though it's
painful to see us play the way we're playing right now.

I want to stay in the PL at all costs, not least to help TB financially.

My personal view, said many times, in that our first team (over all 3 seasons) lacks pace, power, street sense to be in the ref's ear and play the gamesmanship of all the cheats, our CM/no.10 contains a load of slow and small technicians (other than DS's defensive midfield graft & Alzate's who's a star) and the RB conundrum has never been solved.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The ref was awful. We and Watford are in a fight for survival. Watford had a decent enough game strategy to get something from the game. We really aren't up to much at breaking teams down that get their players behind the ball.
And yet, there's a danger at being reactive after games. I've seen worse performances by us, and worse games since we've been in the PL.
Yesterday, for instance had:
-- Capoue and Doucoure, both good PL players, combining to snuff out one of our attacks, and launch a great counter-attack and finish (however poor Duffy was at defending it)
-- Foster making a cracking save from Mooy (I could also include his distribution, which really is so much better than Ryan's ...)
-- ... although there was that long pass to Trossard, which just makes you think that we need to play more directly every now and again just to make us less predictable (it's being predictable -- whether tippy-tappy Potterball, or what transpired to be the dire fare served up by Hughton last season -- that's the problem in this division; predictability is what opposition managers can swot aside with ease)
-- two brilliant fizzed in crosses from Jahanbakhsh (one that our old, slow 36+yo CF couldn't get near; the other that evinced a sublime finish)

In contrast, I'll give you most of what we had to endure for the second half of last season, and that's not forgetting what smash-and-grabs we achieved with those three 1-0s in the first half of the season, all of which rank as truly awful PL spectacles. I can also offer up Huddersfield and West Brom away in our first PL campaign. Turgid.

Overall, we're in a scrap, and my view is that the bookies (or their punters) have it badly wrong with their relegation odds. We've come off a really poor run of results, having played all our relegation rivals in a short space of time. It's difficult to find positives. But really that's what PL football is like for a club like ours. There is a top six, or eight, and the rest are just scrabbling around for survival. It's never going to be edifying. The Championship is just a much more exciting league, and a more pleasurable one to exist in.

I'll reserve judgment on Ashworth and, despite the cogent reasoning you've offered on this thread, your comments probably say more about your frame of mind than what went on on the pitch yesterday.

Not sure you can call Mooy losing the ball in our half when he had time and space as ‘Capoue and Doucoure sniffing out one of our attacks’. This is exactly what Mooy did against Villa that led to Grealish scoring. Mooy’s a golden boy in a lot of people’s eyes, if those mistakes had been Webster or Stephens, reactions would be a lot different.

Championship is only much more exciting around the playoffs. I don’t remember it being that exciting under Garcia, and under Hyypia, and the rest of that season, well I’d challenge anyone to find that exciting!

 

[herecomesaregular]

Not sure you can call Mooy losing the ball in our half when he had time and space as ‘Capoue and Doucoure sniffing out one of our attacks’. This is exactly what Mooy did against Villa that led to Grealish scoring. Mooy’s a golden boy in a lot of people’s eyes, if those mistakes had been Webster or Stephens, reactions would be a lot different.

Championship is only much more exciting around the playoffs. I don’t remember it being that exciting under Garcia, and under Hyypia, and the rest of that season, well I’d challenge anyone to find that exciting!

In some ways I'm surprised Mooy is a Potter signing. He seems to need several touches to release the ball, slow on the turn and often ponderous of thought. Or maybe he has few options when he has the ball and therefore is dithering and losing it. I'm not sure.

 

[Stat Brother]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2X7ElEXFKiE

Andy Naylor was attempting to gain some interest in his article to get his subscription rate up by implying that Ashworth is influencing the first team etc. Here’s an interview from early October. All seems sensible to me and fans from other clubs seem to think that this is what their clubs are missing.

If you can find the thread attached to that interview, you might find NSC was broadly in favour.

For all I know a cross reference of that thread, this and the one attached to Naylor's article might even find some conflicted posters.