[Albion] Appalling Quality All Round - Dreadful

[banjo]

Agree it wasn’t good. Just two teams not wanting to lose an important game.

 

[Icy Gull]

Agree it wasn’t good. Just two teams not wanting to lose an important game.

Far too simplistic, better to get really offended that you have paid a fortune and not got value for money. Customer reaction rather than fan reaction. Staying up is now all that matters, a point is a point. If we’d got three points in one of the games we got a draw and lost the other two we’d be in a worse position I think? We have only let Bournemouth get three points in the four relegation matches

We have had some really entertaining games this season, win, lose or draw, it’s now getting to be nervy and low quality fare as we battle against relegation rivals. Wouldn’t put it past us to win one of the “free hit games” with the pressure and expectation lessened.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

I can't speak for Chicken Run but since he has arrived there has been a complete lack of focus in terms of recruitment. I very much expected the oppposite but instead we have a situation where Winstanley is still in nominal charge but Potter brought his man with him and Ashworth probably carries the ultimate responsibility. Mooy looked a good bit of business but Webster has been average to say the least and he was only brought in to replace Clarke who was signed, found to be not good enough and immediately loaned. Meanwhile Ben White is showing the Championship how it should be done, whilst being our player and we're about to take an Argentinian international, rip him away from his beloved Boca and, quite possibly, start him at Reading, Rotherham and Wycombe next season, Trossard is undoubtedly a very skillful and dangerous attacking player but he's a bit of a luxury and can't finish. And we STILL can't replace Murray and have been surviving all season on a 36 year old, a Frenchman who has never played at this level before and looks burned out, and a kid.

But do you not sense the atmosphere at the club is wrong? We were doing fine under Hughton at the start of last season, then Ashworth comes in and we start playing poorly and it looks like there is dissent in the ranks. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.

Except, at the same time this season exactly the same thing is happening. Looks to me like there is more dissent in the ranks. Potter is blaming the fans, the fans are blaming Potter (or some are) and the players look totally confused. Tell me that Duffy looked like he knew what he was doing yesterday? He didn't. Last week the Greyhound came on and, given freedom to make a nuisance of himself, turned the game. This week, asked to play right back he looked like he'd barely been acquainted with a football before. Same thing has happened to Bissouma. One great game agaist Bournemouth but a poor one with the stiffs against Wednesday and suddenly he's sent to Coventry. Ali J, two goals in two games is assigned back to the bench at best. Connolly is no longer trusted. Bernardo who looked our best player at times during his run is binned off for a centre back.

Our whole recruitment and selection policy looks flaky and I'd expect that to be Ashworth's ultimate remit. It said as much in the article that [MENTION=27447]Goldstone1976[/MENTION] linked to this week. For the second time in a year we are in a position that is leading to unhappiness in the stands and on the pitch and the one senior appointment that is consistent across the whole period is Ashworth.

Its clear that the remit is to develop young talent to play in the first team rather than paying someone else c£80m for a player they have developed. With that in mind it is hard to judge Ashworth on his performance for a few years yet. Why is everyone expecting overnight success from a strategy that is clearly a long term project?

 

[redoubtable seagull]

Indeed.

We are very flakey as supporters. Remember the Stains losing 0-9 to Leicester a while back? Their supporters sang non stop.

In contrast yesterday, when things were not going our way it was silence, with a bit of tutting, and here and there people shouting 'rubbish'.

Then when the team was changed and we started to attack, there was noise.

I think we have to face facts. I know that the customers reject being asked to do something they don't want to do but, it is inescapable, we need to trial the clackers again.

St Mary’s emptied pretty quickly as the goals were going in during that 9 nil loss. It was only the faithful who stayed and sang throughout (brilliantly). I actually think we’d be the same. The vast majority would have left and the Withdean and Priestfield hard core would have stayed and collected together (figuratively speaking) to voice their support of their club. The downside of our rapid growth since moving to the Amex is the accumulation of fair weather fans and people who support other teams and have Brighton as their second team. You only have to hear the conversations in the train over. Pitiful.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The atmosphere at st Mary's is absolutely dire the vast majority of the time. You absolutely cannot compare a one off game where they were getting so utterly battered the fans basically went full circle - which happens quite often under those circumstances.

So many fans seem to think we are unique. We are no bloody different to any other set of supporters ffs. The vast majority of the time I'm watching a game not involving us, the supporters act and behave the same as what happens at the amex. See palace at home to us, for example. Their supposed ultras were very quick to shut up when we were dominating heavily, and selhurst is, the media would have you believe, the creme de la creme in terms of atmosphere in this country.

Like it or not this is how fans in this country act during football games. We react largely to what's going on on the pitch. And it definitely wasn't just 'tutting' and the odd shout of 'rubbish' when things weren't going well anyway. There was just a hell of a lot of angst and frustration about us yet again not turning up in such a big game, myself included.

OK. To be honest, I'm not that bothered. I can't control how others show their support or disapproval. If you think all clubs are the same, you may or may not be correct. I suspect that some clubs are the same and others are different.

 

[Bakero]

I can't speak for Chicken Run but since he has arrived there has been a complete lack of focus in terms of recruitment. I very much expected the oppposite but instead we have a situation where Winstanley is still in nominal charge but Potter brought his man with him and Ashworth probably carries the ultimate responsibility. Mooy looked a good bit of business but Webster has been average to say the least and he was only brought in to replace Clarke who was signed, found to be not good enough and immediately loaned. Meanwhile Ben White is showing the Championship how it should be done, whilst being our player and we're about to take an Argentinian international, rip him away from his beloved Boca and, quite possibly, start him at Reading, Rotherham and Wycombe next season, Trossard is undoubtedly a very skillful and dangerous attacking player but he's a bit of a luxury and can't finish. And we STILL can't replace Murray and have been surviving all season on a 36 year old, a Frenchman who has never played at this level before and looks burned out, and a kid.

But do you not sense the atmosphere at the club is wrong? We were doing fine under Hughton at the start of last season, then Ashworth comes in and we start playing poorly and it looks like there is dissent in the ranks. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.

Except, at the same time this season exactly the same thing is happening. Looks to me like there is more dissent in the ranks. Potter is blaming the fans, the fans are blaming Potter (or some are) and the players look totally confused. Tell me that Duffy looked like he knew what he was doing yesterday? He didn't. Last week the Greyhound came on and, given freedom to make a nuisance of himself, turned the game. This week, asked to play right back he looked like he'd barely been acquainted with a football before. Same thing has happened to Bissouma. One great game agaist Bournemouth but a poor one with the stiffs against Wednesday and suddenly he's sent to Coventry. Ali J, two goals in two games is assigned back to the bench at best. Connolly is no longer trusted. Bernardo who looked our best player at times during his run is binned off for a centre back.

Our whole recruitment and selection policy looks flaky and I'd expect that to be Ashworth's ultimate remit. It said as much in the article that [MENTION=27447]Goldstone1976[/MENTION] linked to this week. For the second time in a year we are in a position that is leading to unhappiness in the stands and on the pitch and the one senior appointment that is consistent across the whole period is Ashworth.

Seems to me like you're looking for a scapegoat but many of the things you mention are down to the manager and the players themselves, unless you think DA is picking the team.

The fact of the matter is we still have a bottom half (bottom 6?) budget and the Premier League is an unforgiving place. Ashworth's remit certainly wasn't to transform the entire club in one year. This season has seen a complete overhaul in style and, unsurprisingly (to me at least), ups and downs.

 

[Stat Brother]

Also Stat our away following is great. Sold out numbers for local games and the fans at West Ham were as loud as ever. And yet we have been a joke away from home since Arsenal. Riddle me that.

I tagged you in because only yesterday you took issue with me for moaning at our home support.

The fantastic away support isn't a riddle at all.

Those guys have paid, made the effort, and don't put up with the negative shite if someone starts.

Whereas we have our S/T paid as just another utility bill.
We put in very little effort to get there.
We expect/demand entertainment while doing very little ourselves.
But we are quick to moan when we don't get VFM.



(I'm conscious of the fact I didn't make it clear earlier, I am very much part of the near silent majority, making me only slightly better than the boo'ers)

 

[vegster]

The only positive I can take from that horror show was Alireza had a great 20 minute cameo. He was my mom just for that as he was the only fella who tried to make anything happen ( which he did ) or looked as if he gave a toss. The whole team looked from the start as if they could not give a rats ars and had been in the casino until 5 am this morning. What worries me the most about Potter is he seems happy with any dross we serve and thinks it is acceptable. We have won 2 in the last 16 games and 1 in 12. Where is the progress ? The football for the first 10 games was great but by and large been horsesh.t for about 4 months now

Watching MOTD I noticed that when Mariappa stuck it in his own net there were THREE of our players about 8 yards back from him and none of them had actually attacked the cross in from the wing. At one down, at home, playing a relegation rival that really looked crap. We just seem, slow, ponderous and mostly devoid of ideas, as Pearce said on the commentary at the end " Brighton have not created enough chances " ….. I think we are stuffed as teams around us show more fight and commitment and will pick up the odd win whereas we pick up the odd point.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Watching MOTD I noticed that when Mariappa stuck it in his own net there were THREE of our players about 8 yards back from him and none of them had actually attacked the cross in from the wing. At one down, at home, playing a relegation rival that really looked crap. We just seem, slow, ponderous and mostly devoid of ideas, as Pearce said on the commentary at the end " Brighton have not created enough chances " ….. I think we are stuffed as teams around us show more fight and commitment and will pick up the odd win whereas we pick up the odd point.

 

[vagabond]

Gross showed amazing desire when his number came up to be substituted. Never seen a player so keen to get off the pitch. For that he was my MoM.

I know right!!?

Didn’t realise Gross had that kind of pace. He sprinted off the field faster then I’ve ever seen him on it.

 

[Stat Brother]

Watching MOTD I noticed that when Mariappa stuck it in his own net there were THREE of our players about 8 yards back from him and none of them had actually attacked the cross in from the wing. At one down, at home, playing a relegation rival that really looked crap. We just seem, slow, ponderous and mostly devoid of ideas, as Pearce said on the commentary at the end " Brighton have not created enough chances " ….. I think we are stuffed as teams around us show more fight and commitment and will pick up the odd win whereas we pick up the odd point.

Just before the goal the team took a fair few minutes to get the ball into the box and unbelievably nobody was there.

 

[Chicken Run]

Just nonsense. You live in a simple world whereby if you can reconcile the difficulty that is prospering in the Premier League by laying the blame at the door of one individual then that makes you happy. I believe that for the first time we have the opposite in our recruitment policy. Some long term planning that links the academy, the loan system and the needs of the first team aligned with a style of play. This was always going to be a period of transition and performances and results have been poor over the last 5 weeks. But I would much rather focus on the positives and enjoy my football rather than constantly searching for the negatives. When did some Brighton fans get this sense of entitlement that means that all we have to do is turn up to beat all these ‘lesser’ teams in the Premier League

No sense of entitlement, just a clear logic that if we want to stay in this league, scratching around for the odd point against fellow strugglers ain’t gonna work, tbh I sometimes think BMuff have it it right when they call us “Infrastructure Fc”.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Just before the goal the team took a fair few minutes to get the ball into the box and unbelievably nobody was there.

Quite. Said this at the time.
It’s all very well playing Gross deeper, but Murray had no-one within 10 yards of him.

Gross getting a lot of stick though playing out of position....


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[doogie004]

Its clear that the remit is to develop young talent to play in the first team rather than paying someone else c£80m for a player they have developed. With that in mind it is hard to judge Ashworth on his performance for a few years yet. Why is everyone expecting overnight success from a strategy that is clearly a long term project?

Not expecting overnight success but what about the here and now ? We get relegated then I expect the youth to take over but I dont want to go down . Don’t think we would come straight back up huge gamble


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[Johnny RoastBeef]

We’re certainly NOT on track to:

“Staying in the Premier League isn't enough. What we want to do is to be a top 10 Premier League club."

A bottom 6 squad, bottom 6 results, it’s touch and go as to whether we’ll be playing league football against Rotherham next season.

We're only 4 points from being in the top 10 with a £200m squad playing football we could have only dreamed about last season.

We just need a pacey right back who delivers quality into the box and an attacking midfielder who makes those defence splitting third man runs.

Oh, hang on.

Don't get all the negativity on here all the time.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Its clear that the remit is to develop young talent to play in the first team rather than paying someone else c£80m for a player they have developed. With that in mind it is hard to judge Ashworth on his performance for a few years yet. Why is everyone expecting overnight success from a strategy that is clearly a long term project?

Seems to me like you're looking for a scapegoat but many of the things you mention are down to the manager and the players themselves, unless you think DA is picking the team.

The fact of the matter is we still have a bottom half (bottom 6?) budget and the Premier League is an unforgiving place. Ashworth's remit certainly wasn't to transform the entire club in one year. This season has seen a complete overhaul in style and, unsurprisingly (to me at least), ups and downs.

It's not clear at all. In fact, Andy Naylor wrote an article about him in The Athletic that was vague enough on his remit to cause [MENTION=27447]Goldstone1976[/MENTION] (one of the best posters on here and far from reactionary) to start this thread.

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/show...-%91major-say-in-the-Albion%92s-first-team%92

Here's that standout quote that raised eyebrows:

Here’s the full quote; I’ve emboldened the bit I quoted in the thread title.

“Player recruitment and loans are two of the six areas that fall into Ashworth’s remit at Brighton. He also has a major say in their men’s and women’s first teams, the academy and the medical and sports science department”.

So loans and recruitment under his remit and, as I highlighted in my quoted post, these leave quite a bit to be desired. Another window has passed without signing a striker and am I really the only one who thinks that signing Webster and loaning White out was the right decision? But also he has a MAJOR say in the first team and the article also says he and Potter do not always agree. And this is DISRUPTIVE. Take any large, corporate organisation and put in someone who is able to contradict and undermine another senior staff member and you're asking for trouble. I believe Hughton was undermined and Naylor's article suggests that Potter and Ashworth do not always agree. Do they do this in private? Is it all harmonious in the end? Is it done in front of senior players (would captain Dunk get any say at all for example)?

Just nonsense. You live in a simple world whereby if you can reconcile the difficulty that is prospering in the Premier League by laying the blame at the door of one individual then that makes you happy. I believe that for the first time we have the opposite in our recruitment policy. Some long term planning that links the academy, the loan system and the needs of the first team aligned with a style of play. This was always going to be a period of transition and performances and results have been poor over the last 5 weeks. But I would much rather focus on the positives and enjoy my football rather than constantly searching for the negatives. When did some Brighton fans get this sense of entitlement that means that all we have to do is turn up to beat all these ‘lesser’ teams in the Premier League

No I don't. I've been a Brighton fan since the late 70s and I've watched us in all of our home grounds and in every division. I've travelled up to northern griefholes safe in the knowledge that all I'll get out of the day is a few beers and a defeat. I'm not even bothered if we get relegated. More games in the Championship and more interesting away days (and chances to get to them too). I'm not sure Bloom and his bank balance would agree though. So, long term development is all fine but not if it undermines the manager and not if it gets us relegated.

As for "just turning up" to beat lesser teams? Do behave. No easy games at this level. But the point is we NEEDED to win them. Look at our remaining games. Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd and Arsenal all to come at home. Realistically two points from those games is the most we can expect (I'm actually expecting us to not get a single point and that's realism rather than entitlement or pessimism). The run of games we have just had presented the perfect chance for us to put some breathing room between us and the bottom and we have comprehensively failed to do that.

And I ask you the same question as the other two. If we are supposed to be developing our own players why bring in Webster and loan out White?

 

[Bakero]

And I ask you the same question as the other two. If we are supposed to be developing our own players why bring in Webster and loan out White?

Surely loaning out White was done precisely to develop him. Next year we get a battle-hardened player who will have learnt a lot playing at a decent level under a great coach.

 

[spence]

We're only 4 points from being in the top 10 with a £200m squad playing football we could have only dreamed about last season.

We just need a pacey right back who delivers quality into the box and an attacking midfielder who makes those defence splitting third man runs.

Oh, hang on.

Don't get all the negativity on here all the time.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Someone needs to give [MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION] a cuddle!!

Not the worse game I’ve seen us play at home in the PL, not the worse in terms of quality either, some credit to Watford for a huge amount of effort and organisation, as [MENTION=435]Stat Brother[/MENTION] points out, Hughton-esque for sheer numbers behind the ball, in all honesty I’ve never seen a team so deep at times in that second half.

Belief is a funny thing, no one has a magic wand, and Potter is at least trying to find it, all be it he probably got it wrong yesterday.

5 teams still below us. 3 points above the drop zone. Other teams also have tough fixtures. Fancy us against opposition at home expecting to beat us and being more expansive themselves.

 

[Bakero]

Which points are you disputing?

4 points off top 10 - fact
Dominating possession in almost every game after spending last year on the back foot - fact
Lamptey is pacey - fact
Mac Allister likes to burst beyond the strikers - fact