An olive branch to the Potter outs tonight

[lawros left foot]

I’ve never really been one to get into any manager out camps apart from Hyypia, but I’d started eyeing the fence and thinking about climbing onto it before Christmas.

Well done GP for the marvellous run of results. I kept hoping they were coming but had started to lose the faith. Fully back on side now and looking forward to seeing if we can continue this improvement.

This is exactly how I’ve felt.
I’m a glass half full bloke, nothing is ever as bad as it seems ( except Hyppia), but, I admit I very nearly climbed on the fence after the Sheffield United game. More to do with not having a prolific striker to replace Murray than anything else.

Well done Graham, keep it up.

 

[zefarelly]

This is in danger of turning from 'possible' to 'definite' 'look at me, look at me, I was right you were wrong' thread with bear pit potential.

yes we've finally won a few games, but we're still in a similar position to every other PL season at he same stage. a fair way to go yet.

just we're doing it with a bit more class. Lets hope it continues in the current trajectory. The season that is, not this thread.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Has it though, if looked at like that?

We've scored three goals in our last five league games. I'm too lazy to dig out xG for those games but, using my dodgy memory, I think we should have scored at least double that.

The difference hasn't come at the sharp end of the pitch, the end where some people (I'm not suggesting you) have been screaming out for a £30-40m punt on a goalscorer. The difference is that we've only conceded one goal in those five games, and that came from the flairiacs at The Ethiad.

Three goals in five league games actually equals our worst goalscoring run in the season - Liverpool (h), Southampton (h), Leicester (a), Fulham (a), Sheff Utd (h) - so by The Guardian's reckoning we should still be rated as non-scorers...

I've referenced the quote, mainly because it was FUNNY but also summed up a perception of GP. However, I specifically said in that quoted paragraph that it was RESULTS I was looking for rather than goals.

So long as you score more than you concede you win games. People are still banging on about Man Utd but we conceded sloppy goals in that game. Last night we didn't look like it at all. Which is why I said......

That, however, is based on defensive solidness and not the Brazil 1970 performances. In beating Leeds, Liverpool and Spurs and drawing with Fulham we have scored three goals. We just haven't conceded any. Funnily enough Chris Hughton was always about the clean sheet first.

....and therefore where I agree entirely with you on the bit I've bolded.

I honestly think GP has looked at it and concluded with a heavy heart that we won't take as many chances as we should, Therefore not conceding has to be the start point.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I never voted out, but I did get damn frustrated with all the tinkering. Imagine how good he’ll be if we can buy him a real striker!

He's still tinkering. Nothing has changed in substance. Players are rested, some get injured, and others moved around for tactical reasons. Eventually players learn - or leave. Consider 'useless' Dan Burn. Some swore he should never wear the stripes again after the OG game. Then, he's running up the left at Anfield as the go-to man for long clearances, and he heads the pass for the winning goal. Who saw that coming? Potter saw, that's who saw.

Let's face it, we know nothing. Nothing about who has their mojo and who doesn't. None of us saw the sudden disappearance of Maty coming, and the emergence of Sanchez (apart from maybe [MENTION=1276]AZ Gull[/MENTION]).

Personally I'm happy to sit back and enjoy the ride. I've always been Potter in and, if and when he goes, it will be because Tony Bloom has decided it is best for the club (or because he's been called up to manage England, and yes, both possibilities seem remote right now). If it had happened this season or early next (which now seems unlikely), as I have said many times I wouldn't have blinked.

I admire the reconciliatory tone of this thread but we will always have clowns like Junior starting pointless provocative threads, just like we will always have people telling us that Brexit was worth the effort, and Boris is doing a smashing job dealing with Covid.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I always think there is a danger of creating a divide when a binary choice is applied to a complex question particularly in a time of high emotion. People need to remember it's only a message board and none of this matters anyway. Now if Tony Bloom had started the poll .............

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

That is rubbish. He is ticking all the boxes for sure, but the most important box to tick is winning enough not to loose what you have (in other words staying in the Premier League).. In 2020 that didn't happen. It needs to be about 10 games a season. Based on 2020 that would have been 6 games.

It was a long enough period of time to question if he could turn it around or not. Now he is turning it around he should be praised.

You could see that we were doing the right things through 2020, just wasn't going for us, confidence sagged a bit, but still we played 33 games through a pandemic in 2020 and got 30 pts. It was by no means great, but it wasn't altogether dreadful either, we weren't getting roundly beaten or outplayed in most of the games, a lot was down to our own profligacy in front of goal, or just a random mistake.

Potter's record in the PL: P60 pts65. That isn't just a sudden turn around in the last 4 games, there is consistency there, development of youth players, development of progressive tactics and attacking mentality. The tinkering of starting XIs now seems a bit of genius given players coming in like Alzate or Burn are up to speed and fully part of the first team, not a fringe player just suddenly needed. Klopp and other managers complaining of physical and mental fatigue, while Brighton, rotating players all season appear fresh and full of confidence in whoever comes into the side. We've got Lamptey, Welbeck, Andone, Lallana, Izquierdo, Tau, AJ - all itching for their chance to get back in.

Don't rewrite the narrative to suit a knee jerk opinion at Xmas. Potter has been turning it around since the day he arrived. It's not been a smooth ride, but it isn't just the last few weeks either.

 

[Sheebo]

You could see that we were doing the right things through 2020, just wasn't going for us, confidence sagged a bit, but still we played 33 games through a pandemic in 2020 and got 30 pts. It was by no means great, but it wasn't altogether dreadful either, we weren't getting roundly beaten or outplayed in most of the games, a lot was down to our own profligacy in front of goal, or just a random mistake.

Potter's record in the PL: P60 pts65. That isn't just a sudden turn around in the last 4 games, there is consistency there, development of youth players, development of progressive tactics and attacking mentality. The tinkering of starting XIs now seems a bit of genius given players coming in like Alzate or Burn are up to speed and fully part of the first team, not a fringe player just suddenly needed. Klopp and other managers complaining of physical and mental fatigue, while Brighton, rotating players all season appear fresh and full of confidence in whoever comes into the side. We've got Lamptey, Welbeck, Andone, Lallana, Izquierdo, Tau, AJ - all itching for their chance to get back in.

Don't rewrite the narrative to suit a knee jerk opinion at Xmas. Potter has been turning it around since the day he arrived. It's not been a smooth ride, but it isn't just the last few weeks either.

Great post and agree. Only thing I’d say is the ‘tinkering’ has to be limited and that was my one annoyance of him. The last 4 matches have shown that in spades for me. 1 or 2 changes, sometimes enforced, and we go and play with fluidity and a shape...

 

[CliveWalkerWingWizard]

I was firmly in the Potter out camp, that is Because at the time we were shipping easy goals. We did not play a consistent team. There appeared to be a lack of resilience and fight. As well as strange decisions against Arsenal. Also putting Dan Burn up against the likes of Traore. I admit that it would have been a big mistake to sack Potter, but he has finally learned. The team is settled, we are more resilient, we have a good team togetherness. I still stand by BDB should not being played at left back, in the first minute he started to bomb forward when Liverpool had the ball leaving Salah and exposing Webster. We got lucky there, but it evens out some of the bad luck. It was a great performance.

 

[Lenny Rider]

A few of us have kept the faith for a long time. At one point in December NSC was a lonely place for those of us who believed in Graham Potter. Match day threads were abusive. One guy stalked me accusing me of being ‘Swansman’ because there were so few Potter defenders (!)

Some of us always kept the faith. The long term trend improvements were always there in my eyes. Style of play, tactical finesse, eye for a player, good coaching. And a real swagger about the way we played football. Every game umpteen chances. Dominating possession. Incredible to see the way we transformed. We just weren’t getting the breaks.
Others just looked at short term results.

I think the Potter in crowd has been the majority since then.

To the Outters. Come on. Let’s stand down. You can admit you got it wrong... Tonight I extend a hand of friendship. We’re all fans of the club, let’s unite as a fan base again and move forward together.

Very good post.

As a perceived outer to a degree I must put my hands up and say I got it wrong, but at the time it was what I believed and I would go as far as to say, at one point with the level of performances and results and arguably with the best squad the club had ever assembled the question could have been asked is GP one of the worst managers we've ever had?

Clearly that's not the case, but emotions were running high, and we all love the club and following the Albion is at times extremely passionate.

We appear to have turned the corner, partly due to I think a more settled starting line up, so GP has changed his way of thinking, and at times the rub of the green.

What I do object to is the vitriol and venom expressed by some on the 'in' faction on social media in the last 12 hours, at the moment I seem to be constantly trolled by an individual on FB who claims his name is Kee Wah Cheunggipswicz,(quite a common Sussex name) at the lowest point I questioned on here where some fans deluded, but never mentioned bedwetting or any other form of abuse, we all support the Albion we all want what's best for the club, hence why the timing of your post was extremely apt.

 

[Sheebo]

Very good post.

As a perceived outer to a degree I must put my hands up and say I got it wrong, but at the time it was what I believed and I would go as far as to say, at one point with the level of performances and results and arguably with the best squad the club had ever assembled the question could have been asked is GP one of the worst managers we've ever had?

Clearly that's not the case, but emotions were running high, and we all love the club and following the Albion is at times extremely passionate.

We appear to have turned the corner, partly due to I think a more settled starting line up, so GP has changed his way of thinking, and at times the rub of the green.

What I do object to is the vitriol and venom expressed by some on the 'in' faction on social media in the last 12 hours, at the moment I seem to be constantly trolled by an individual on FB who claims his name is Kee Wah Cheunggipswicz,(quite a common Sussex name) at the lowest point I questioned on here where some fans deluded, but never mentioned bedwetting or any other form of abuse, we all support the Albion we all want what's best for the club, hence why the timing of your post was extremely apt.

Great humility as ever Harty - and one most posters have had the balls to admit to on this thread. We can’t always get it right but posting when you have probably got something wrong is a class trait.

As for the trolling - just don’t do Facebook - it’s a breading ground for anxiety and hate and is used so badly by so many. Utter shambles of a ‘social media’ site and why I hate mainstream social media with a passion - means everyone has your number essentially...! Bad enough with the odd obsessive poster on here!

 

[andy1980]

Bollocks you just don't appear to have the ability to look past the points tally. Funny how a great many of us are not surprised that our fortune is improving and non of us feel the need to use the phrase "turn things around" turning things around was the last thing on our minds.

Another 2 wins and we have matched 2020 win tally. If that isn't turning things around I don't know what is.

 

[Sheebo]

A few of us have kept the faith for a long time. At one point in December NSC was a lonely place for those of us who believed in Graham Potter. Match day threads were abusive. One guy stalked me accusing me of being ‘Swansman’ because there were so few Potter defenders (!)

Some of us always kept the faith. The long term trend improvements were always there in my eyes. Style of play, tactical finesse, eye for a player, good coaching. And a real swagger about the way we played football. Every game umpteen chances. Dominating possession. Incredible to see the way we transformed. We just weren’t getting the breaks.
Others just looked at short term results.

I think the Potter in crowd has been the majority since then.

To the Outters. Come on. Let’s stand down. You can admit you got it wrong... Tonight I extend a hand of friendship. We’re all fans of the club, let’s unite as a fan base again and move forward together.

44 likes - looks like you have the backing of the majority of switched on fans Bit like those days with the Potter Out shouters!

 

[andy1980]

You could see that we were doing the right things through 2020, just wasn't going for us, confidence sagged a bit, but still we played 33 games through a pandemic in 2020 and got 30 pts. It was by no means great, but it wasn't altogether dreadful either, we weren't getting roundly beaten or outplayed in most of the games, a lot was down to our own profligacy in front of goal, or just a random mistake.

Potter's record in the PL: P60 pts65. That isn't just a sudden turn around in the last 4 games, there is consistency there, development of youth players, development of progressive tactics and attacking mentality. The tinkering of starting XIs now seems a bit of genius given players coming in like Alzate or Burn are up to speed and fully part of the first team, not a fringe player just suddenly needed. Klopp and other managers complaining of physical and mental fatigue, while Brighton, rotating players all season appear fresh and full of confidence in whoever comes into the side. We've got Lamptey, Welbeck, Andone, Lallana, Izquierdo, Tau, AJ - all itching for their chance to get back in.

Don't rewrite the narrative to suit a knee jerk opinion at Xmas. Potter has been turning it around since the day he arrived. It's not been a smooth ride, but it isn't just the last few weeks either.

5 wins in 33 games is not re writing the narrative. Its relegation form. 65 points in 60 games I am happy with 2020 results I'm not. Thats it, its all there is to it. So far 2021 results have been fantastic long may it continue.

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

Very good post.

As a perceived outer to a degree I must put my hands up and say I got it wrong, but at the time it was what I believed and I would go as far as to say, at one point with the level of performances and results and arguably with the best squad the club had ever assembled the question could have been asked is GP one of the worst managers we've ever had?

Clearly that's not the case, but emotions were running high, and we all love the club and following the Albion is at times extremely passionate.

We appear to have turned the corner, partly due to I think a more settled starting line up, so GP has changed his way of thinking, and at times the rub of the green.

What I do object to is the vitriol and venom expressed by some on the 'in' faction on social media in the last 12 hours, at the moment I seem to be constantly trolled by an individual on FB who claims his name is Kee Wah Cheunggipswicz,(quite a common Sussex name) at the lowest point I questioned on here where some fans deluded, but never mentioned bedwetting or any other form of abuse, we all support the Albion we all want what's best for the club, hence why the timing of your post was extremely apt.

With the injuries we've been picking up, I think Potter's choices have narrowed, not necessarily his way of thinking. I think you want to feel that your opinion over Xmas is justified through something changing recently. I'm not sure that is the case. The tinkering has helped certain players game time and feel part of the starting XI so they come in and play well. It's also developed some unlikely combinations, a big one for me is Gross - Bissouma in centre midfield, not a pairing many would likely be drooling over, but has been absolutely superb over the last couple of games. The squad rotation or tinkering means players come in and are completely trusted by their team mates. Those teams that don't rotate or use the depth / talent in their squads are now the ones complaining about fatigue.

Confidence and rub of the green I can agree with. That bit of rub has meant belief and confidence has risen through the team. It hasn't taken much to being a bit unlucky away to ManCity to turning that into 3 points at Anfield IMHO. These performances no real difference to when we played MU off the park at the start of the season.

I mean we didn't just smash and grab a Burnley-esque 6 shots to Liverpool's 27, we dictated the game, for 90mins, more shots, more shots on target, better chances. If we were being critical, then actually only 2 goals against Spurs and Liverpool - for the quality of chances and dominance we showed still we should be scoring more!

 

[Beanstalk]

I voted out. We weren't winning games, I always maintained that was my reason for it. I stand by my reasoning at the time. Now we're winning games, I'm absolutely delighted to have been proved wrong.

This. I think pretty much every one of those who voted out didn't do it with a personal vendetta - Potter losing his job meant our own team continuing to get poor results and essentially falling into the relegation zone which looked very likely at one point. I think Potter would even admit that December was one of (if not) the hardest months of his managerial career. It looked like the team's heads had dropped, he couldn't settle on his strongest side (let's not forget that Arsenal line-up), and the results were abysmal. I was at the Southampton game and a lot of the players that were so fantastic last night, looked like they'd had enough (Maupay, Trossard). Fulham had also started to put together performances and our home record for last year was abysmal. I think by the end of the month, Potter's overall win rate had dropped below Hyppia's. Things did not look good.

Now I don't know what on earth happened at half-time against Wolves but the turnaround has been remarkable. I am over the moon at our recent form. Last night's performance was the stuff of dreams and if it is a marker for the future then we are on our way to somewhere special (hopefully in person).

The "I told you so" brigade really need to give it a rest now. The criticism of Potter was entirely justifiable at the time, he was never going to get sacked mid-season (it is not how we operate as a club) and he's managed to turn it around. Personally, this was the dream scenario but after the Arsenal debacle it seemed exactly that, a wistful dream.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

5 wins in 33 games is not re writing the narrative. Its relegation form. 65 points in 60 games I am happy with 2020 results I'm not. Thats it, its all there is to it. So far 2021 results have been fantastic long may it continue.

Souness summed it up before the Spurs game. Brighton playing really good football and it was just a matter of time before it clicked. It’s finally clicked.

My issue is that people failed to see the difference between holding on for a draw and trying to sneak a win style under CH and the going for the win rather than the draw under Potter. I just don’t understand how people couldn’t see the possibilities and potential.

It’s know surprise that when he has been able to play the same team we have done very well. It shouldn’t be forgotten the injury’s that prevented this.

 

[vegster]

A few of us have kept the faith for a long time. At one point in December NSC was a lonely place for those of us who believed in Graham Potter. Match day threads were abusive. One guy stalked me accusing me of being ‘Swansman’ because there were so few Potter defenders (!)

Some of us always kept the faith. The long term trend improvements were always there in my eyes. Style of play, tactical finesse, eye for a player, good coaching. And a real swagger about the way we played football. Every game umpteen chances. Dominating possession. Incredible to see the way we transformed. We just weren’t getting the breaks.
Others just looked at short term results.

I think the Potter in crowd has been the majority since then.

To the Outters. Come on. Let’s stand down. You can admit you got it wrong... Tonight I extend a hand of friendship. We’re all fans of the club, let’s unite as a fan base again and move forward together.

I'm ambivalent on Potter personally, I like the positivity he exudes and the style of play. However, football IS result driven, the fact we have picked six points from Spurs and Liverpool is amazing, he has bought himself more time. But if we lose the next six the pressure will return again, remember nobody " wins" an argument about whether a manager stays or should go.

I fear the abuse you have had for sticking up for him is grossly unfair but in recent years it seems ALL " arguments" ie, differing viewpoints, end up getting spiteful and vindictive in a very short time. You see this across many platforms and man subjects and it's really sad it has come to this.

 

[Weststander]

I too was reactionary at times, perhaps it was too much caffeine, perhaps it’s the general state of play for us all - OR perhaps I was guilty of being a bit of an ********. Irrespective of this, I kept saying to myself he needs some results and fast and ... well ... he got some results and ermmmm fast. The turn around against Wolves was, a marker, and a real dear diary moment. But moreover, I think the performance against Man City did something more to instill belief into our game and reaffirm our genuine quality. Pep too has played a part - his comments sometimes seem a bit patronising, but he went out of his way to keep talking us up and moreover GP... perhaps this helped refocus the players minds ... hmmmmm

All of that aside GP clearly saw, as we did, our gradual lack of incision and slow play - we’re back to faster transition, back to our best under GP - indeed, we’ve just surpassed it! The key is to look up now and keep getting results.

I did question GP as a coach - pointing to a lack of growth and progression during the dark days of 2020, but he’s made some big and tough calls - Ryan being the obvious one and (all evidence suggests) got them spot on. The growth I sought has been seen plainly in the last two fixtures - Fulham too, we could have won at a cantor - yes we weren’t brilliant, but we deserved the win nonetheless.

Ultimately GP deserves huge credit for continuing to work hard and believe... and although we’re still lacking lots of goals defensively we look reborn.

Well done GP - keep it up!

I commend GP's tactical flexibility. For a long period it seemed we were doomed to rigidly passing it around the back for possession's sake, which always invited pressure, whilst in attack we stuck with dozen passes to get a strike on goal making us easy to defend against.

A while back now, GP adjusted all that with a mix - long clearance passes by our goalie or CB's, more direct attacking at times but still pleasing on the eye, our defence now sat deeper with plenty of numbers, rather than the naive suicidal football of everyone pushed up at the Etihad on 31/08/19 (4-0).

Opposition coaches such as Bielsa haven't got a clue what Potter's got planned, in terms of selection, formation and tactics. Small nuanced changes to keep them guessing.

So lucky having GP, rather than the oh so predictable rugby of former England manager Allardyce.

 

[vagabond]

Here comes the other one that always needs his ego massaged. Our biggest league win in decades and also both more interested in one upmanship over other fans. Apologies? For not being happy with 2 wins in half a season and 1 home win in a year. Get to f*** you child. Icy Gull credit for exactly the right and grown up reply on this thread.

As for The OP. The pomposity to offer An ‘olive branch’? Like he or any of this on NSC really matters, You do realise this is just an online forum and the point is to have debates and argue different view points about the club we all love? Leave the egos at the door. It astounds me how seriously people take themselves and talking to people they don’t even know and will likely never meet on a virtual forum.

Hard to admit you were wrong isn’t it?

Man up.

 

[Albion Dan]

Don’t worry - he lives in a constant need to criticise and gain attention to take away from a clearly very sad life. Best thing I did was stick that **** on ignore - now they’ve been made to look very silly they keep going with the attempts at baiting when all they’re doing is biting. Prize A Bellend who looks very very very stupid now more than ever.

I believe that’s the first time in my life someone’s accused me of even having an ‘ego’ but clearly he knows best in the Internet forum as he uses later on in the argument. Constantly quoting me to when I don’t with him / her - didn’t mention them and actually said a very positive post about ignoring the hate and posted an awful lot about we’re all BHA fans etc etc and an awful lot on the win last night - just picks out whatever to suit her / his narrative. Absolutely obsessed with trying to argue, yet bottled it when was confronted as per...

If only Daniel / Daniella’s grasp of the game of football was as tactical as her / his posts. ‘Post a load of negative shite that gets proved wrong - try and deflect away from being called out for posting the shit by attacking those that are to take the attention off the facts’ - pathetic.

Let’s hope we stumble upon another good player soon to help Potter out

Ahh bless he’s gone and got himself a little riled up with that rant [emoji23]. At least he’s managed to not send me abusive drink fuelled DMs and grovelling apologies this time round.