[Politics] A nation divided like never before- who do you blame

[hans kraay fan club]

I blame successive governments for allowing stealth changes to how Europe operates. It was supposed to be a group of trading nations with common rules but has become a complex monster that restricts the individuality of its members.

All true. I went to Italy recently and you should see it now - no Vespas. No pizza. No Peroni. No pasta. No beautiful girls. No chunky middle-aged women in black. ALL banned by the EU, for being too 'Italian'. Its the same all over Europe. Sad, sad times.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

All true. I went to Italy recently and you should see it now - no Vespas. No pizza. No Peroni. No pasta. No beautiful girls. No chunky middle-aged women in black. ALL banned by the EU, for being too 'Italian'. Its the same all over Europe. Sad, sad times.

Is that the same Italy that was stopped by the EU from setting it's own budget?
https://news.sky.com/story/italys-budget-rejected-by-european-commission-11533281

So if the Italian voters elected the party because of a manifesto promise to pass the sort of budget they announced, why should the EU reject it and force Italy to back down? EU politics over-riding national politics and the votes of that nations population

The EU and Italy's populist government on Wednesday called a truce in their bitter row over Rome's disputed 2019 budget, as Brussels said revised spending plans fell within bloc rules.

In a historic first, in October the European Commission rejected Italy's big-spending budget, which promised a universal basic income and scrapped pension reform.

In Wednesday's deal, Italy agreed to back down on both of its landmark measures, and is now committed to not adding to its colossal €2 trillion euro debt load next year.

 

[Is it PotG?]

All true. I went to Italy recently and you should see it now - no Vespas. No pizza. No Peroni. No pasta. No beautiful girls. No chunky middle-aged women in black. ALL banned by the EU, for being too 'Italian'. Its the same all over Europe. Sad, sad times.

Not many stereotypes in there, were they all gesticulating madly whilst watching The Godfather?

 

[Weststander]

Is that the same Italy that was stopped by the EU from setting it's own budget?
https://news.sky.com/story/italys-budget-rejected-by-european-commission-11533281

So if the Italian voters elected the party because of a manifesto promise to pass the sort of budget they announced, why should the EU reject it and force Italy to back down? EU politics over-riding national politics and the votes of that nations population

Sssshhh. Pretend that Italy isn’t locked in a bitter dispute with the EU over finance.

 

[Pavilionaire]

The poll doesn't have the option of "Right-Wing Media" but for me the 40+ years of drip, dip negativity from the The Sun, Daily Mail / Express and Telegraph created the climate for Brexit and runs the Tories a close second.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Barber

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Ahhh .... the second remainer this week to use the offensive term 'retard' ..... such a nice bunch ! Looking forward to your use of the words mong and spastic.

And when have I tried to shutdown debate ?

I haven't looked at this thread until now, but I am a hypocritical, mentally deficient lying weasel if that helps.



(According to two of the most prolific Brexiteers on NSC anyway.)

 

[lawros left foot]

Mike Dean.
Seriously.

 

[LadySeagull]

[/B]

It still astonishes me that some folk thought it would be the UK's call. The EU never wanted this to succeed.

It astonishes me that remainers don't see it as a matter of huge concern in itself, that the EU have corralled us and had a major hand in engineering an unsuitable 'deal'.

It's also of huge concern that there was no set policy, draft terms or even guidelines for any Member State to leave voluntarily...they didn't want to create the possibility, so we now have a disastrous checkmate: ''you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave...''

 

[Grombleton]

Is that the same Italy that was stopped by the EU from setting it's own budget?
https://news.sky.com/story/italys-budget-rejected-by-european-commission-11533281

So if the Italian voters elected the party because of a manifesto promise to pass the sort of budget they announced, why should the EU reject it and force Italy to back down? EU politics over-riding national politics and the votes of that nations population

To be fair, given Italy's recent history of financial crises i wouldn't trust them to sort things out for themselves.

 

[Questions]

To be fair, given Italy's recent history of financial crises i wouldn't trust them to sort things out for themselves.

This is true and I’m half Italian.

 

[Arkwright]

No leadership, no opposition, no policy, no kin clue.

It's beyond a joke. Leavers now want to remain while remainers want to honour the original vote. I'm not sure that anyone anymore really knows what they want.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Anyone who doesn't support Brexit needs to sign the 'Revoke Article 50' petition now and put an end to this madness.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

 

[WATFORD zero]

The problem is the amount of time taken so far and that nothing has been settled, with multiple delaying tactics coming into play.

The vote was leave / remain. It was not leave with a deal or remain yet Parliament has decided that a deal needs to be in place first before we can leave.

They (MP's) seem to think that it is all down to us and are forgetting about the other interested party in all of this, the EU and what they want and need from an agreement for our leaving.

Business (and other sectors) simply wanted a decision made long before we leave about how we leave (with or without a deal) so they can simply plan or it and adjust their strategy accordingly. What we have are Politicians that don't seem to realise this, and are determined to drag the process out for as long as possible (it may be a tactic they are using in an effort to try to get their personal goal, ie no Brexit)

A good way to demonstrate this is that someone has been given a job as a teacher at a new school, what that person would like to know is what subject they will be teaching at that school, what we have is the decision makers delaying and arguing over who does what that it's going to adversely affect the teachers ability to plan for lessons (ordering materials, and putting together lesson plans, etc for the subject they get)

Because we have almost run out of time, the teacher may end up ordering materials and lesson plans for several subjects (wasting time and money in the process) they may gamble and get materials for a particular subject (like chemistry) only to find that they are going to teach another subject (like maths) - If they knew what was going to happen when they start (the subject they will be teaching) then they can get ready for it and the day they start will be a lot smoother and they will be prepared for whats ahead.

Politicians, who are not affected in this way by the outcome of decisions like this in the same way as businesses will be fail to see the importance of having a decision made early and therefore allowing businesses to plan. Any disaster to the economy we encounter after leaving will be more down to this indecision and lack of notice as politicians dither rather than down to Brexit itself.

The fact that politicians have also stopped the Government from preparing for a no deal Brexit is also likely to be very damaging should we leave with no deal (again they fail to see the need to plan ahead as it is not something that's as important in their role as a politician)

There is also a lot of scaremongering out there which is likely to lead to shortages as people stockpile unnecessarily. It would be like a rumour going around that we are running very short of petrol and likely to run out in a few days time, and what happens is that everyone will rush out and fill their cars up with fuel, leading to a spike in demand and causing a shortage which wouldn't have otherwise happened. (cause and effect)

It's not if we leave with or without a deal that's the important factor, but the amount of time left after that decision has been made that is crucial - and MP's are determined to run the clock out (some are playing party politics in the hope of grabbing power, others because they completely oppose Brexit, even though it was a simple single topic referendum and produced a leave result which they do not want to happen and will do all they can to sabotage)

So it's fairly simple then. Should we have stayed in the customs union with no border in NI/Ireland or gone no deal with a hard border?

Because you seem to be saying that if we had made this decision 3 years ago, you believe everything would be hunky dory now

 

[maltaseagull]

Anyone who doesn't support Brexit needs to sign the 'Revoke Article 50' petition now and put an end to this madness.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Only needs another 16.5 million signatures.

 

[maltaseagull]

I agree with all that but it still poses the question what has Corbyn done that places him higher on the blame table than this lot?

Whilst May has shown poor leadership, he has been so weak just sitting on the fence.He criticises everything May says or does but offers no alternative plan apart from totally unrealistic ideas. Rather like his manifesto of nationalising railways and utilities with no plan to finance apart from borrowing.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

So it's fairly simple then. Should we have stayed in the customs union with no border in NI/Ireland or gone no deal with a hard border?

Because you seem to be saying that if we had made this decision 3 years ago, you believe everything would be hunky dory now

Or simply sort out the details of how we will leave long before now (say giving a years notice) even if it was no deal.

We are about a week away from the leaving date and we have no idea if we are leaving with a deal, if we leave with no deal or if we will have a change to the leaving date.

How do you plan as a business with that level of uncertainty?

Going back to the new school example, if they don't know what they will be teaching once they start because it hasn't been decided, should that mean you don't open that new school and stick to what you had before?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Anyone who doesn't support Brexit needs to sign the 'Revoke Article 50' petition now and put an end to this madness.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Singed.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Even Mr Sulu thinks May should go

https://twitter.com/GeorgeTakei/status/1108479343548874758?s=19

 

[Motogull]

I would like to add egos to the list.

Who in their right mind would want to be a politician? You get no credit, just flack from all sides. Many politicians seem a best a little odd to me. So maybe that's the question answered. We should be grateful to some degree that they stepped forward though.

So back to ego.

Bronze medal to Dave Cameron. So keen to be PM he bought the support of eurosceptic members by allowing a vote for the referendum, in the mistaken belief all would be well and he would have delivered his part of the deal.

Silver mega to Jerry Corbyn. Ego has prevented him from recognising he is well past his popularity peak. The PM has had greater opposition from her own party. Labour will not win a GE with him and McD fronting them.

Gold medal for the PM. Plainly driven by desire to PM. At her age her last shot presented itself when a voice inside her head should have said 'leave it'. Buy no, she in my opinion decided her legacy would be delivering brexit. She has lost her way. Big time. Clanger after clanger. She could have walked after the worst ever vote result in the HOC, but fair play, she stood tall. Improving that to fourth worst result ever should have made her think about handing over, Oh no, she needs a result. She is looking down the barrel of being the PM that bungled brexit. She is desperate. Her 'emergency' address last night was more about her needing to save what remains of her credibility.