[Politics] A nation divided like never before- who do you blame

[portlock seagull]

No. I am saying that if your system of government is a parliamentary democracy, that's how it should work.

And with a parliamentary democracy, you shouldn't have referendums.


It doesn't mean the people are clueless. It means that the MPs are the professionals whom we trust to have the informed debate about the matter, whatever it is, do the research and come to a sensible decision.

With what is going on around Brexit at the moment, the main problem in my view is what the Government has been doing, or not doing, since article 50 was invoked. The Daily Express headline today called for MPs to get behind Brexit and unite the country. They should have been making the effort to unite the country TWO YEARS AGO to come to some sort of common ground over what was to happen. We haven't got any politicians in any party capable of doing that, least of all the current occupant of no. 10, who is frankly pathetic.

MPs are in no way subject matter experts on most parliamentary things let alone Brexit, just well connected and supposedly an ability to influence. How can they be? Nobody knows what’s likely to happen even and it’s been like that from day 1 so no, I don’t trust them to have an informed debate not only because there are so many unknowns but because of all the lies and misinformation that’s constantly spewed by both sides. You only have to watch five minutes of a political panel show like QT to see opposite sides completely denying what the other has just said is gospel. Most confusing!

 

[A1X]

This. Some people are so thick they don't understand the difference between hating labour and blaming them. I hate pickled eggs, but I don't blame them for my indigestion.

Just heard on the radio that the brexit tit who egged Corbyn has just be gaoled for 28 days. Lucky he doesn't have a job to lose!

The BBC News website felt the need to emphasise that he wasn't a regular at the Mosque where he attacked him. News released from the "No Shit Sherlock" institute, presumably.

 

[Dick Head]

Why on Earth hasn't this ridiculous thread been merged into the Big Shouty Thread yet? MODS?

 

[LlcoolJ]

David Cameron promised to honour the result of the referendum. This would always have been difficult (in the case of a leave vote) because his party was deeply split and he was never likely to get a very big majority indeed it was a surprise that he got a majority at all. And then he buggered off.

Given the difficult task, Theresa May should have reached across the house to negotiate Brexit jointly. It would have been difficult for Labour to refuse in the immediate wake of the vote - they have much more wriggle room now. She looks ridiculous now bringing her one idea back time and again. She reminds me of the Victoria Wood character from the tearoom sketch (Do you want something from the sweet trolley?)

I've been disappointed that Corbyn has shown no leadership in this matter but this is a Tory mess.

"Two soups?"

 

[clapham_gull]

Why on Earth hasn't this ridiculous thread been merged into the Big Shouty Thread yet? MODS?

It's an indicative thread to give NSC time to debate whether the other one is bollocks.

 

[LlcoolJ]

Cameron never expected the success and majority he achieved in the 2015 election and assumed his Liberal chums would continue to be on his side of the house and vote down a referendum that he was obliged to satisfy his Euro sceptics with, come 2015 he was ****ed and had to go with it but even then naively thought remain would win....

That's also true. What a pathetic individual that he would gamble and then gamble again on NOT having the power to do what he thought was right.

The fact that he openly attacked Clegg and the Lib Dems during the election (which ultimately lead to his downfall) will just add to the way he is viewed in history.

Our worst PM ever. The ****.

 

[portlock seagull]

Why on Earth hasn't this ridiculous thread been merged into the Big Shouty Thread yet? MODS?

We needed a 2nd thread because about 48% of people on NSC didn’t like the original

 

[Weststander]

Why on Earth hasn't this ridiculous thread been merged into the Big Shouty Thread yet? MODS?

Makes The Big Board look busier and more impressive.

 

[LlcoolJ]

We needed a 2nd thread because about 48% of people on NSC didn’t like the original

But is it a dividend nation? Or, a Scissored Isle?!

https://youtu.be/GkkWx2d36Us

 

[portlock seagull]

But is it a dividend nation? Or, a Scissored Isle?!

https://youtu.be/GkkWx2d36Us

Probably just a dumb nation.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

No. I am saying that if your system of government is a parliamentary democracy, that's how it should work.

And with a parliamentary democracy, you shouldn't have referendums.


It doesn't mean the people are clueless. It means that the MPs are the professionals whom we trust to have the informed debate about the matter, whatever it is, do the research and come to a sensible decision.

With what is going on around Brexit at the moment, the main problem in my view is what the Government has been doing, or not doing, since article 50 was invoked. The Daily Express headline today called for MPs to get behind Brexit and unite the country. They should have been making the effort to unite the country TWO YEARS AGO to come to some sort of common ground over what was to happen. We haven't got any politicians in any party capable of doing that, least of all the current occupant of no. 10, who is frankly pathetic.

Is that why there is a much derided MP who often shouts object when Parliament is trying to fast track legislation through? The MP in question claims he does it so that it is (hopefully) going to be debated properly and examined thoroughly before passing, trying to prevent bad legislation. - if that individual didn't do that, would a lot of poor and under researched and debated items get through? - most likely

There are also plenty of examples where MP's deliberately run the clock out on subjects through asking ridiculous questions, etc.... so that nothing happens and nothing gets done.

They are hardly going to be experts on the numerous different, wide ranging subjects they are asked to debate on, etc... How could they be, their backgrounds are never going to cover all the subjects that may come up over the course of their terms as an MP.

Then add in that some sleep through debates, others have already decided how they will vote before a debate and have agreed with someone else who would vote for the opposite so both agree to abstain from the vote so neither have to turn up. There are also a lot that simply fail to turn up very often and debates can happen with very few MP's present

So MP's were never going to be experts on Brexit, they were never going to be able to know what will happen to this country and what it would be like (how we trade, effect on the country of leaving, etc after 1 year, 5 years, 10 years etc after we have left) - how can they? no one knows, even now as simply we haven't left.

Quite simply no one could be an expert on this and it's more of a gamble to leave. Some people are natural more risk adverse than others and simply want to take the safer / more comfortable option to them (remain) as that's what they already know rather than step out of their comfort zone and take a chance / seize an opportunity (leave)

 

[kevo]

David Cameron


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OP missed the bloomin obvious answer.