[Politics] A nation divided like never before- who do you blame

[darkwolf666]

I would like to add egos to the list.

Who in their right mind would want to be a politician? You get no credit, just flack from all sides. Many politicians seem a best a little odd to me. So maybe that's the question answered. We should be grateful to some degree that they stepped forward though.

So back to ego.

Bronze medal to Dave Cameron. So keen to be PM he bought the support of eurosceptic members by allowing a vote for the referendum, in the mistaken belief all would be well and he would have delivered his part of the deal.

Silver mega to Jerry Corbyn. Ego has prevented him from recognising he is well past his popularity peak. The PM has had greater opposition from her own party. Labour will not win a GE with him and McD fronting them.

Gold medal for the PM. Plainly driven by desire to PM. At her age her last shot presented itself when a voice inside her head should have said 'leave it'. Buy no, she in my opinion decided her legacy would be delivering brexit. She has lost her way. Big time. Clanger after clanger. She could have walked after the worst ever vote result in the HOC, but fair play, she stood tall. Improving that to fourth worst result ever should have made her think about handing over, Oh no, she needs a result. She is looking down the barrel of being the PM that bungled brexit. She is desperate. Her 'emergency' address last night was more about her needing to save what remains of her credibility.

Unfortunately Mrs May is the living embodiment of Yes Prime Ministers Jim Hacker. Deluded by her own self belief, while all the time being set up as the patsie to take the fall.

Like Hacker, May deserves some sympathy, sympathy for being so vain and so stupid.

 

[Acker79]

I don't think you can pin it on one person.

Going from the referendum, when the leave vote won, it seems like everything those in power could do to mess it up and make the situation worse, they have done. Some by design, whether that be those that want a no deal, so are trying to scupper any effort to come to any sort of deal while warning against no brexit, and those that want no brexit, so are trying to ruin any deal, while trying to warn against no deal, notable Jeremy Corbyn and his unwillingness to be a proper opposition to the government. And some through their own flaws (ineptness, stubbornness), notably Theresa May and her self-imposed red lines, refusal to have a cross party group to work on the deal, her refusal to view the options as anything other than her way or no way (trying to scare those that want no deal that maybe we won't have brexit, and those that want to remain that we'll have a no-deal brexit). Outside of the government, on person to person level society; leavers not agreeing on what leave actually means (other then the blindingly obvious 'leave means leave', of course)? The remainers that refuse to accept the results of a referendum?

So, whose fault is the referendum result? The people who voted leave because they didn't think leave would win and wanted to make a protest vote? Russian bots promoting false stories, lies and law breaking from the leave campaign? Facebook and twitter etc. for not dealing with 'fake news' and false accounts? The failures of the remain side to put forward a convincing enough argument argument? A tory government whose push for austerity is probably more to blame for most leaver's grumbles than the EU? The bankers and finance industry that caused the crash that put governments in position to move for austerity? The previous governments' lack of safeguards and enforced regulations to prevent the financial breakdown?

But even with all that, what of the referendum itself? Why did we have it? To settle some in-fighting in the tory party? To pander to a section of society that blames troubles on 'others' rather than looking inward or to our own government? To pander to people who don't realise the British Empire isn't what it was? Why such a simplistic, vague question so that everyone is arguing leave means hard brexit, or it means with many of the promised deals and agreements that were pushed by a leave campaign who painted them as simple to arrange or that it meant specifically controlling our borders or so on? Why put such a monumental question with all it's complexities and repercussions to an electorate that, on the whole, has little to no appreciation for said complexities?

It feels like there is plenty of blame to go around. And so many pieces of the puzzle that can be removed and not change a damn thing.

 

[Javeaseagull]

The most common complaint I hear about immigration is they are taking our houses. No mention of governments or councils not providing enough affordable housing for everyone.
Could this be to keep the property bubble going? I ask because it occurs to me that much of our wealth is based on this. I admit that I could be biased in this view because I know so many people that have no hope of ever owning their own house, the holy grail.
I have three children that all have their own houses so that is not my concern. My grandchildren however have little to no chance of ever buying a property.
Am I being paranoid? I live in Spain but if I wanted to return to the UK the prices are terrifying to me.

 

[clapham_gull]

Complex but history won't judge Labour or it's new supporters very well.

Went missing in the referendum and the aftermath obviously too complex for them to offer a coherent opposition. Whilst the Tories are obviously split you do get the sense the factions will actually talk to other, with the exception obviously of the Prime Minister.

The lefts problem is they generate hatred between themselves far stronger than than towards the right. Traitors to the cause etc...

The other problem being their constant attempt to push the issue to one side, suggesting there are "other important issues". They are important but not more important than this.

 

[DavePage]

and Boris, stick him in the mix too

amazed it took 144 posts for Boris to get mentioned, or am I from a distant missing something?

 

[Lever]

amazed it took 144 posts for Boris to get mentioned, or am I from a distant missing something?

Absolutely right. He is a dangerous man whose modus vivendi (excuse the Moggism) is to act as an endearing clown. Hopefully he has been sussed....

 

[Chicken Run]

Am I being paranoid? I live in Spain but if I wanted to return to the UK the prices are terrifying to me.

Quite literally pmsl when you said this!

 

[Uncle C]

I blame all those Labour MPs in constituencies where their electors voted OUT. Gutless or what.

 

[The Clamp]

I’m guessing Pasta has been banned from the main thread?

 

[Lever]

I’m guessing Pasta has been banned from the main thread?

Probably.... and if not, why not?

 

[albion68]

And what has your winning team won exactly ?

Your sentence is revealing in that most of the political establishment including the Prime Minister is remain as you voted therefore you are pleased the way it is going to block Brexit , even it was a democratic vote . We did survive before the EU or Common Market which only had a few countries in it.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Blame is too strong a word, but those who are allowed to vote but can’t be bothered to formulate opinions of their own, so follow peer pressure, historical family dictates, tabloid headlines and the crap they read on social media. They constitute a significant number of people who can be easily manipulated. Let’s be honest, back in June 2016 very few of us knew the full implications of Brexit.

 

[wigman]

Corbyn has a lot to answer for.
The government have made a right cock up of Brexit and if we had an half decent opposition they could've put serious pressure on the Tories.
Unfortunately Corbyn and Abbott are not up to the job.

 

[bWize]

Corbyn has a lot to answer for.
The government have made a right cock up of Brexit and if we had an half decent opposition they could've put serious pressure on the Tories.
Unfortunately Corbyn and Abbott are not up to the job.

You have to be trolling? This is down to TM (agent remain) the Tories and the EU themselves. How you can point the finger at Corbyn/Abbot is laughable!

Corbyn has been forced in to a corner and has had to tow the party line to a large extent, especially with snakes like Chukka and the other Blairite globalists within the party stirring the pot the whole time. No matter what JC does the UK MSM and powers that be are ready to pounce on anything and turn it in to a negative hatchet job. Seems there are plenty of people more than willing to swallow it as well.

Without going too conspiracy I personally think most of the ineptitude and lack of progress over the past 2-3 years isn't by accident, but by design. UK public on both sides have been played like a fiddle

 

[Weststander]

Corbyn has a lot to answer for.
The government have made a right cock up of Brexit and if we had an half decent opposition they could've put serious pressure on the Tories.
Unfortunately Corbyn and Abbott are not up to the job.

The problem for Corbyn & McDonnell has been the dilemma of meeting their own longheld anti EU stance (all clearly explained elsewhere), whilst pretending to young socialists and Starmer that they’re pro EU. They are also very aware that millions of working class voters are vehement Brexiteers in the Midlands, North and Wales.

Caught in a similar trap to May.

If say Benn or Starmer headed the Labour Party, in effect they’d be a clear cut Remain party, with some dissenting MP’s.

The above all adding to the political maelstrom of the last three years.

 

[albion68]

Blame is too strong a word, but those who are allowed to vote but can’t be bothered to formulate opinions of their own, so follow peer pressure, historical family dictates, tabloid headlines and the crap they read on social media. They constitute a significant number of people who can be easily manipulated. Let’s be honest, back in June 2016 very few of us knew the full implications of Brexit.

If you increase the population every year amounting to the size of a town like Bolton and you are asked to have a say in it ,you can make your own mind up about that , which begs the question where is every body going to go on this small island its unsustainable.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Whilst the Tories are obviously split you do get the sense the factions will actually talk to other, with the exception obviously of the Prime Minister.

I find myself wondering if you are in a parallel universe. Labour are being pathetic at The moment, but the Conservatives are just nowhere. How can you get to the state where a Cabinet Minister will speak in favour of a motion, and then go through the lobbies a few minutes later and vote against it, where cabinet ministers can rebel serially and stay in post, where people are voting in the same lobby for enormously different reasons.

 

[Weststander]

I find myself wondering if you are in a parallel universe. Labour are being pathetic at The moment, but the Conservatives are just nowhere. How can you get to the state where a Cabinet Minister will speak in favour of a motion, and then go through the lobbies a few minutes later and vote against it, where cabinet ministers can rebel serially and stay in post, where people are voting in the same lobby for enormously different reasons.

All 650 MP’s, including ministers, are basically ignoring party instructions (Whips) and going on a free-for-all on their own anti or pro EU beliefs.

 

[Flagship]

I blame the Russians. If they hadn't put the fear of neuclear war into us during the 'cold war' of the 1960s and 70s, none of this would have happened.

 

[Withdean and I]

I blame John Major’s government back in the early 1990’s for refusing to give the country a referendum on the Maastricht Treaty.
That essentially changed what was the EEC a trading group of countries) into the EU which was a completely different thing but included the trading group.
Many countries were courteous enough to their people to put such a massive change to a referendum.
But we were denied that chance and I think that this has led to where we are now.