[Politics] A nation divided like never before- who do you blame

[Stat Brother]

I feel like our education system has had a role to play here.

I'm almost 34 and my knowledge of politics for the bulk of my youth came exclusively from my parents. We may have touched on the general idea in school that we have a Parliament and a Prime Minister and that every four years or so people get to vote in a massive election. There was certainly no specific teaching about politics, about how government functions, about the EU or anything of the like. Instead we got history classes about the American West or medicine through time. Our PSE (Personal and Social Education) classes focused largely, from my recollection, on sex education and the need to start thinking about your future because guess what?! You've got exams coming up and you need to know what you want to do for the rest of your life or you're going to struggle!

I don't have kids so I don't know if its changed but for me, I think political education needs to start early. This shit, however nuanced and woolly a lot of it is, is f**king important. It matters. F**k the American West and I don't give a whiff of a shit about medicine through time; as long as my doctor knows how to diagnose and treat me then I'm all good. It's a difficult one to implement though. Teachers will have their own views on the subject matter so how do you keep party bias out of the teaching? I don't know. But there has to be something. You can't have kids getting to 14 / 15 / 16 with their only knowledge of politics being what they've taken on themselves to learn or, in my case, what they've picked up from their parents shouting at the news.

So yeah, that.

Also, David Cameron.

First past the post means a high percentage of votes are meaningless.

I'm 49 and when I have voted, over the last 30 years, my vote has been worthless.
If my children remain local, as it currently stands, they will never have a meaningful vote, begging the question:-

'Why engage in the first place?'

 

[nicko31]

The tabloids and their 20 year agenda of "make shit up and blame the EU for it". Plus obviously May & Cameron.

Murdoch, Desmond, Dacre and the Barclay Bros, just ordinary common folk...

 

[BBassic]

First past the post means a high percentage of votes are meaningless.

I'm 49 and when I have voted, over the last 30 years, my vote has been worthless.
If my children remain local, as it currently stands, they will never have a meaningful vote, begging the question:-

'Why engage in the first place?'

Yeah I get that. Guess what else probably isn't taught in schools? The relative merits of various voting systems.

 

[Blue3]

There are of course many, many people who share the blame, but I’m probably just most angry with Corbyn than the rest of them, and that’s a personal opinion. Having always been of a more socialist leaning myself, his betrayal of his Party and his country whether through pure stupidity or a more sinister agenda is incredibly depressing and hurtful. And the fact that I feel obliged to feel more sympathy for Theresa May than any of the other morons at this moment leaves me feeling slightly unclean. It shouldn’t be this way.

We are entitled to our own views and I respect yours however I also see myself as socialist leaning and that the Blair years moved Labour a Socialist Party to the centre ground and to becoming a social Democratic Party rebranding it New Labour I only see that Corbyn has returned the party to being Labour again, I also think there is room for a new Social Democratic Party as well a more right wing right leaning Party to sit alongside the three traditional Parties all in all I see all of what's happening not just Brexit but across the World as undergoing a transition from what's it's been to what it will become we live in interesting if a little dangerous times

 

[Lever]

You're digging yourself a big hole. In this day and age, you don't use the word. You can look up your clever definition but it's not acceptable. Apologise for the use of the word and just replace it with dumb ****wits when describing most leavers!!!

Fair enough Drew. If I had used 'retard' in the verb form I think I might have avoided giving such obvious offence.... my point is that some people {on both sides) seem to still be spoiling for a exchange of insults; I bow to no one in my conviction that remain is by far the best option; but I get no pleasure in insulting Leavers

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

#blamestockdale

 

[Stat Brother]

We are entitled to our own views and I respect yours however I also see myself as socialist leaning and that the Blair years moved Labour a Socialist Party to the centre ground and to becoming a social Democratic Party rebranding it New Labour I only see that Corbyn has returned the party to being Labour again, I also think there is room for a new Social Democratic Party as well a more right wing right leaning Party to sit alongside the three traditional Parties all in all I see all of what's happening across the world not just Brexit but the World is undergoing a transition from what's it's been to what it will become

Sadly we don't have 3 traditional parties, thanks to Blair we now have 2.

Blair got everybody running to the middle ground, until they realised there wasn't enough room for all.
The 2 main parties retreated away from the ideals of the bulk of the country, so as not to be seen to have anything in common with the opposition.

This caused the Liberals to have the actual middle ground pulled out from under them.
I firmly believe whichever coalition they formed, they'd be in exactly the same position now.

We're a broadly centrist country with no centrist representation, irrespective of which side of the centrist debate you follow.

 

[A1X]

Murdoch, Desmond, Dacre and the Barclay Bros, just ordinary common folk...

And I'm sure it's a complete coincidence all of them wanted out so very badly at the exact moment the EU tax laws are about to kick in. Just unfortunate timing that it might make them look bad.

 

[A1X]

Sadly we don't have 3 traditional parties, thanks to Blair we now have 2.

Blair got everybody running to the middle ground, until they realised there wasn't enough room for all.
The 2 main parties retreated away from the ideals of the bulk of the country, so as not to be seen to have anything in common with the opposition.

This caused the Liberals to have the actual middle ground pulled out from under them.
I firmly believe whichever coalition they formed, they'd be in exactly the same position now.

We're a broadly centrist country with no centrist representation, irrespective of which side of the centrist debate you follow.

The Bell Curve applies.

I think this is why the main parties are so terrified of TIG, they're a centrist party without the baggage of the Lib Dems.

 

[Blue3]

Tories - this is the endgame of a war that has been taking place in the Tory party since 1971. They are, to put it simply, a bunch of caaaants who purport to be acting in the country's interest whereas in reality all they are worried about is protecting/feathering their own richly upholstered provincial and rural nests.

Only the beginning of the end change is coming Rome did not fall in a day it took centuries and during its decline and ultimately fall for those living through it I imagine it would have been hard to see so slowly did it happened but over the long view of history it's clear all things are conceived born flourish wither and die as such so is the fate of the political systems we know including the Tory Party and ultimatley Capitalisum its not the start of the decline has been happening since the late 1800s but I think we are approaching a tipping point interesting times indeed

 

[Hotchilidog]

The Bell Curve applies.

I think this is why the main parties are so terrified of TIG, they're a centrist party without the baggage of the Lib Dems.

Or any policies. Don't think anyone is terrified of TIG, just annoyed by them.

 

[Blue3]

Sadly we don't have 3 traditional parties, thanks to Blair we now have 2.

Blair got everybody running to the middle ground, until they realised there wasn't enough room for all.
The 2 main parties retreated away from the ideals of the bulk of the country, so as not to be seen to have anything in common with the opposition.

This caused the Liberals to have the actual middle ground pulled out from under them.
I firmly believe whichever coalition they formed, they'd be in exactly the same position now.

We're a broadly centrist country with no centrist representation, irrespective of which side of the centrist debate you follow.

I agree with all you say except your last paragraph here we differ we were in my view for a breif period a centrist country but that changed

 

[portlock seagull]

End of the day ..... Labour would never accept any deal brokered by the Conservatives & the Conservatives would never accept any deal put forward by Labour .... and the LibDems would just ignore the referendum totally

No deal will ever get through Parliament due to the fact its been hijacked by party politics & was never a cross party process

IMHO its now left at either No Deal Brexit or remain .... nothing else will get a majority as MP's are entrenched and not willing to compromise even the tiniest amount

Oh and dont forget the EU of course have probably put the boot in and made life as difficult as possible simple for having the audacity to ask to leave.

Perfectly surmised.

 

[Two Professors]

Lynden Scourfield

 

[Sussex Nomad]

May started the Brexit process, then called a GE and lost. Then carried on like she had won.

Missed that election.

This one:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_United_Kingdom_general_election

Ah you mean the one she won is the one she lost. Got yer now.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Missed that election.



Ah you mean the one she won is the one she lost. Got yer now.

She didn't win because she didn't get a majority. She needed the 10 DUP votes and paid for them.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

She didn't win because she didn't get a majority. She needed the 10 DUP votes and paid for them.

Hmmm I did wonder who the PM is.

 

[pb21]

Missed that election.



Ah you mean the one she won is the one she lost. Got yer now.

No, the one she lost, that no one won.

 

[Javeaseagull]

The Bell Curve applies.

I think this is why the main parties are so terrified of TIG, they're a centrist party without the baggage of the Lib Dems.

They are not a party just a privately funded group of MPs. Their funds are donated to the Cayman Islands I believe. A fine example to us all.

 

[highflyer]

We're a broadly centrist country.

If your description of 'centre' is still sitting where it got moved to under the Blair/Cameron era, I just don't think we are.

Rutger Bregman, and many others, are making a strong case that the 'centre ground' (if that is thought of in terms of ideas broadly accepted as common sense) is no longer where we thought it was. And ideas that would previously have been seen 'extreme' (citizens income, wealth taxes, higher income tax, nationalised transport, green new deal etc) are now supported by a signficant %, and in some case a majority. And this is most likley has some way to go yet as we get to grips with the real challenges of solving climate change, dealing with the rise of the robots, reducing monopoly power, financialization and so on.

Even on this forum i have seen people saying they agree with almost all Labour policy, but then saying that they are still too 'extremist' to get elected.

Who knows what the hell is really going on, or how all this will pan out in the long term.
But my guess is that the centrist dads club of NSC are in for a few shocks in the coming years.