8 car trains for Falmer?

[Hotchilidog]

Its not the rail companies, network rail have been told to save 4 billion in the next 4 years, if they get together and work a deal then it might happen, how much income will the train companies make from it? It will be a shame to see a nice stadium with a poor transport system

I would say that falmer is better placed than most with regards to transport. There will be park + ride, buses, trains and given it's proximity to East Brighton the option of walking for some fans. Obviously not all fans can be accommodated by the trains but not all fans will need to use them.

After a couple of months I'm pretty sure people will figure which solution best suits them and get on with it.

 

[British Bulldog]

Thats the underpinning problem really then isnt it? The lack of pathways? The only pathway I can potentially see between Brighton and Lewes (correct me if I am wrong) is around about the on the hour mark as a booked train would leave Brighton at xx52 (Ore) then xx10 (Seaford) and xx22 (Lewes). Would an additional train leaving Brighton at 1400 be any good or would people still prefer to be in the pub at that time?
If a train departed Brighton at 1400 and called at Falmer only, would it have time to empty out at Falmer and be clear in time for the 1410 Seaford to not be affected?

It's not too bad going from Brighton to Falmer as there is a signal at London road that shortens the section a bit going that way, It's coming back where you've got the problem. All it would take is the installation of 1 signal between Falmer and Brighton to cut the section time in half and you automatically create extra pathways for additional trains.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

It's not too bad going from Brighton to Falmer as there is a signal at London road that shortens the section a bit going that way, It's coming back where you've got the problem. All it would take is the installation of 1 signal between Falmer and Brighton to cut the section time in half and you automatically create extra pathways for additional trains.

But there would still be challenging issues about limited platform capacity at Brighton and Lewes.

 

[mikeyjh]

I would say that falmer is better placed than most with regards to transport.

You're joking right?

The major disadvantages that Falmer has is that you can't walk to and from it and there's nowhere near for people to disperse to (Pubs). I think the trade off from getting your nice new stadium is that it's going to be a bit of an arseache to get to (or more acutely leave from), heyho, still beats Withdean.

 

[Uter]

A project office response from 6th Dec last year suggests there will be extra trains running. Looking at the current timetable and considering the contraints discussed in this thread I can't quite see how they can be squeezed in myself.

"There are no plans to lengthen the platforms. The train lengths are set by the platforms at Moulescoomb and London Road. The number of trains and their length are suffieicent to get people away in a reasonable time and yes there will be extra trains on match days."

 

[Hotchilidog]

You're joking right?

The major disadvantages that Falmer has is that you can't walk to and from it and there's nowhere near for people to disperse to (Pubs). I think the trade off from getting your nice new stadium is that it's going to be a bit of an arseache to get to (or more acutely leave from), heyho, still beats Withdean.

No I'm not joking. No-one is claiming that you'll be out of your seat and on your chosen mode of transport within minutes, and there will inevitably be delays when leaving, especially to begin with, but which stadium doesn't have these issues.

At least Falmer has access to a trainline, as well as an A-road, nearby parking and park + ride sites. When you look at other proposed sites these were pretty much only accessible by road which would have been a nightmare for those without cars. As for the pubs element of your query hopefully the facilities at the stadium will be of a good enough standard to entice people to stay there.

 

[British Bulldog]

But there would still be challenging issues about limited platform capacity at Brighton and Lewes.

That could be got around with some proper planning, It might be a bit tight on evening games but they manage it once a year for the Lewes bonfire celebrations so i'm sure they could do it for a football match.

The frustrating thing about that signal I mention is it's allready there Brighton side of Moulscoombe, It's just at the moment it's used as a repeater signal for the stop signal on the viaduct at Brighton and is only capable of showing a yellow or green aspect. All thats needed is to change the interlocking to allow that signal to be used as a 3 aspect stop signal and it cuts the section time down by half.

 

[Uter]

No I'm not joking. No-one is claiming that you'll be out of your seat and on your chosen mode of transport within minutes, and there will inevitably be delays when leaving, especially to begin with, but which stadium doesn't have these issues.

At least Falmer has access to a trainline, as well as an A-road, nearby parking and park + ride sites. When you look at other proposed sites these were pretty much only accessible by road which would have been a nightmare for those without cars. As for the pubs element of your query hopefully the facilities at the stadium will be of a good enough standard to entice people to stay there.

Falmer is also well served by buses, certainly much more so than Withdean. I think there are around 15 services in the hour after a match finishes, even more if people are prepared to walk a little and then catche the bus. Plus I'm sure extra buses will be layed on.

 

[Notters]

There is no way that 16000 will choose to take the train to and from Falmer.

What makes you say this? Everyone I've spoken to wants to take the train and a previous poll on here showed that something like 70% of people are planning to take the train.

 

[Hotchilidog]

Falmer is also well served by buses, certainly much more so than Withdean. I think there are around 15 services in the hour after a match finishes, even more if people are prepared to walk a little and then catche the bus. Plus I'm sure extra buses will be layed on.

Exactly. I think people are getting too fixated on the trains, there is a mix of transport solutions at Falmer, not just the train.

 

[Notters]

Falmer is also well served by buses, certainly much more so than Withdean. I think there are around 15 services in the hour after a match finishes, even more if people are prepared to walk a little and then catche the bus. Plus I'm sure extra buses will be layed on.

15 x 70 = 1,050. Presumably they are quite busy already or there wouldn't be so many. So perhaps there's room for 300 per hour?

I'm not trying to be a doom merchant by the way. I'll probably walk most of the time despite the fact I live in central Hove.

 

[jordanseagull]

Wonder what proportion of people would take the car/train/bike/walk to and from Falmer, presuming there are 20,000 people...

 

[Notters]

Wonder what proportion of people would take the car/train/bike/walk to and from Falmer, presuming there are 20,000 people...

There was a fairly extensive poll on this a while back. I know NSC isn't representative of all views but I shouldn't think it was way off the mark on this one.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I was AMAZED that more wasn't made of the rail capacity during stadium egress, and I believe it could have killed the whole project - especially as 'sustainable transport' was very much the buzzword we were using. If it did come up hopefully we could have covered it with waffle about ground frames, shuttles, minor signal improvements, platform alterations, staggered journeys, etc.

And, like I said earlier, I thought we would be able to find a solution to increase rail capacity. If we can't of course then we'll have to decrease rail demand - perhaps, as BLOCK F mentioned above the 'westies' will run coach services from Chichester, Arudel, Worthing, Lancing, Shoreham, etc.

Hope the coach parking will be adequate tho'.

As someone who worked for years in this particular area, I paid a lot of attention to the way transport issues were dealt with during the whole planning process.

When the planning application was first submitted, it was for a stadium that was to be built in two phases. Phase One delivered about 14,000 seats, if I remember rightly. The 22,500 capacity only arrived when Phase Two was built.

Right from the start, the Football Club produced estimates of the numbers of people who would use different modes of transport to travel to and from games. The interesting thing about the estimates of rail users was that the figure (about 3,000, if I remember rightly) was the same for a 14,000 seater stadium as for a 22,500 seater stadium. In other words ... the number of rail users was limited by the capacity of the railway.

Once the planning inquiries started, the Club's transport consultants managed to shift the basis of the debate away from absolute numbers (defined by the capacity of the railway) into a percentage game (would rail account for 10 per cent of spectators, 15 per cent, 20 per cent, or whatever?) There was now scope for implying that, if 3,000 people in a crowd of 15,000 could use the railway, then the same percentage (ie about 4,500 people) could do so if 22,500 turned up.

The opponents of the stadium simply fell into the trap of letting the percentage game dominate the proceedings. All sorts of arguments were put forward that it might not be 20 per cent, it might only be 10 per cent, etc etc. This kept the Inquiry occupied for hours and gave the impression that the issue was being very seriously considered.

But the FACT that there is an absolute limit on rail capacity (to be expressed in terms of the numbers of spectators who can fit on the trains) was quietly ignored.

As I've said, the Club knew this right from the start. It was a triumph for the Inquiry team that they succeeded in diverting all of the opponents (even those who could afford to pay a transport consultant) into a totally different basis for investigating the issue.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

What makes you say this? Everyone I've spoken to wants to take the train and a previous poll on here showed that something like 70% of people are planning to take the train.

Even playing the percentage game, this figure is wildly wrong.

 

[Gwylan]

You're joking right?

The major disadvantages that Falmer has is that you can't walk to and from it

It's about a 20 minute walk from my house - that sounds well do-able to me.

And it's within easy walking distance not just of Coldean, but Bevendean, Moulescoomb and Bates Estate too. That will account for a couple of thousand people. Everywhere's going to difficult to walk to for some people - the Goldstone was a bit of a schlep for me from Moulsecoomb but I still went - and walked there most games.

 

[Titanic]

As someone who worked for years in this particular area, I paid a lot of attention to the way transport issues were dealt with during the whole planning process.

When the planning application was first submitted, it was for a stadium that was to be built in two phases. Phase One delivered about 14,000 seats, if I remember rightly. The 22,500 capacity only arrived when Phase Two was built.

Right from the start, the Football Club produced estimates of the numbers of people who would use different modes of transport to travel to and from games. The interesting thing about the estimates of rail users was that the figure (about 3,000, if I remember rightly) was the same for a 14,000 seater stadium as for a 22,500 seater stadium. In other words ... the number of rail users was limited by the capacity of the railway.

Once the planning inquiries started, the Club's transport consultants managed to shift the basis of the debate away from absolute numbers (defined by the capacity of the railway) into a percentage game (would rail account for 10 per cent of spectators, 15 per cent, 20 per cent, or whatever?) There was now scope for implying that, if 3,000 people in a crowd of 15,000 could use the railway, then the same percentage (ie about 4,500 people) could do so if 22,500 turned up.

The opponents of the stadium simply fell into the trap of letting the percentage game dominate the proceedings. All sorts of arguments were put forward that it might not be 20 per cent, it might only be 10 per cent, etc etc. This kept the Inquiry occupied for hours and gave the impression that the issue was being very seriously considered.

But the FACT that there is an absolute limit on rail capacity (to be expressed in terms of the numbers of spectators who can fit on the trains) was quietly ignored.

As I've said, the Club knew this right from the start. It was a triumph for the Inquiry team that they succeeded in diverting all of the opponents (even those who could afford to pay a transport consultant) into a totally different basis for investigating the issue.

So... if the club knew from day 1 that there would be limited rail capacity... what is plan B for getting fans to and from the stadium?

 

[Notters]

Even playing the percentage game, this figure is wildly wrong.

This is my point. People need to be made aware of this or they're going to be seriously pissed off.

 

[Brovion]

...
As I've said, the Club knew this right from the start. It was a triumph for the Inquiry team that they succeeded in diverting all of the opponents (even those who could afford to pay a transport consultant) into a totally different basis for investigating the issue.

Top work!

I'm also sure it will all get sorted out. As has been pointed out there are bound to be teething troubles, but eventually people will work out a way that's best for them.

Just out of interest what IS the capacity of the Park 'n' Ride sites and coach parks (in terms of vehicles)? Do you know, roughly?

 

[Uter]

What makes you say this? Everyone I've spoken to wants to take the train and a previous poll on here showed that something like 70% of people are planning to take the train.

Because this would mean that a higher proportion of people would travel to and from Falmer by train than any other stadium in the country. It simply isn't realistic to expect this level of use. There is a station fairly near Withdean and there was one near the Goldstone, but neither of these are/were used by anything like the numbers you are suggesting. I can't see any reason to suppose Falmer will be different.

As others have pointed out there will be many different ways to get to Falmer. Don't forget there will be 2000 park and walk spaces. Even a modest average occupancy of 2 per vehicle will account for 4000 fans. Some people will no doubt park in Coldean or Moulsecoomb and walk. And then there are the park and rides, buses, coaches, cycling etc. The train will not be convenient or favoured by as much as 70%.

Even at a place well served by public transport such as Highbury only about 60% took the tube or train. 30% still drove despite hardly any parking.