8 car trains for Falmer?

[Uter]

The most galling sight for fans waiting at the station after the match could be the sight of the 15:32 from Ashford going through Falmer at about quarter past five on a Saturday and not stopping.

I guess the plan could be to have this service make an additional stop at Falmer, but I can foresee a lack of flexibility here. Assuming a 7 minute running time between Lewes and Falmer it currently goes through Falmer at approximately 17:14, exactly the time the next train from Lewes to Brighton is scheduled to leave.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Am I right in thinking that if we'd had this debate at the planning enquiry and it had been picked up by our opponents, this could have been enough to put the kybosh on Falmer? Or would this have been dismissed as inconvenient but nothing serious?

Good question. Fortunately none of the transport consultants engaged by the opponents was asked to consider the question of rail capacity. So no hostile evidence was produced.

Looking back with hindsight at my time at ESCC, I'm rather pleased with the fact that we kept quiet about all this when the planning application was first submitted.

 

[markw]

The best solution to this would be to install a set of changeover points Brighton side of Falmer and upgrade the signaling system between brighton and falmer. This would enable trains to run back and forth between the two stations on matchdays and events at the stadium and with a proper signalling system would enable trains to leave brighton without waiting for clearance at falmer. This would also be a huge benefit when there are engineering works country side of falmer and would not effect the stadium events. Its not the area i work in but i am sure i saw a set of points brighton side of lewes when i went there the other day?

 

[willingdon_seagull]

The most galling sight for fans waiting at the station after the match could be the sight of the 15:32 from Ashford going through Falmer at about quarter past five on a Saturday and not stopping.

I guess the plan could be to have this service make an additional stop at Falmer, but I can foresee a lack of flexibility here. Assuming a 7 minute running time between Lewes and Falmer it currently goes through Falmer at approximately 17:14, exactly the time the next train from Lewes to Brighton is scheduled to leave.

What would be the point in in stopping though? It only has 2 carriages and usually at weekends those trains are full up from Lewes anyway so there would be no real benefit of stopping as realistically how many people would you fit on it?

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

Are the rail companies working on this now ? Are they motivated by the revenue from match-day passengers ? or do they see it as an inconvenience ?

 

[Hotchilidog]

Sure it will be a bit chaotic at the first night game but will get sorted out in time, all new places have a few teething problems. Anyone who has been to the Emirates for a evening game knows about chaos.

Exactly. I think people are just going to have be patient and give it a while. I think we can all predict the moaning threads on here about the post match chaos that will almost inevitably ensue in the early days at Falmer.

Personally, if the facilities are good I'll have no problem with hanging around at the stadium for 45 minutes/an hour to let the crowds dissipate.

With all this talk of trains I hope the club are not neglecting the use of shuttle buses to Lewes and Brighton before and after the game ala Reading. This would certainly take up some of the strain that trains cannot cope with.

 

[Ernest]

The reality is the present service that operates on a Saturday which will be departures from Falmer at 1651, 1705, possibly the Ashford additional stop at 1715, 1721 and 1735. There maybe room for one more special football train and the Ashford may be run as a 377 to double the capacity but that is that, there is not the staffing capacity, signalling capacity or the stock capacity to run any more additional trains after the game and also before hand.

 

[Notters]

Would it be possible to operate an 8 car train for example from Brighton fast to Falmer and then send it down to Newhaven or Eastbourne empty - keep it there and then bring it back after the match for pick up to Brighton? This way it wouldnt clog up Lewes and without stopping at London Road and Moulsecoomb would be quicker to move out of the way for the stopping services behind it?

Just a thought like - in Newhaven I often see trains in that old station by the Ferry Terminal.

This would still only take up to 1,000 people. What about the other 15,000 that are planning to take the train?

 

[British Bulldog]

Would it be possible to operate an 8 car train for example from Brighton fast to Falmer and then send it down to Newhaven or Eastbourne empty - keep it there and then bring it back after the match for pick up to Brighton? This way it wouldnt clog up Lewes and without stopping at London Road and Moulsecoomb would be quicker to move out of the way for the stopping services behind it?

Just a thought like - in Newhaven I often see trains in that old station by the Ferry Terminal.

No reason why you cant send trains to Eastbourne & Newhaven empty but you've still got the problem of a lack of pathway's between Falmer and Brighton inbetween the regular booked services.

 

[Uter]

What would be the point in in stopping though? It only has 2 carriages and usually at weekends those trains are full up from Lewes anyway so there would be no real benefit of stopping as realistically how many people would you fit on it?

2 carriages! seriously? I didn't know that.

 

[algie]

Exactly. I think people are just going to have be patient and give it a while. I think we can all predict the moaning threads on here about the post match chaos that will almost inevitably ensue in the early days at Falmer.

Personally, if the facilities are good I'll have no problem with hanging around at the stadium for 45 minutes/an hour to let the crowds dissipate.

With all this talk of trains I hope the club are not neglecting the use of shuttle buses to Lewes and Brighton before and after the game ala Reading. This would certainly take up some of the strain that trains cannot cope with.

Staying on sounds like a good idea.I wonder what time the stadium is open till after the game?

 

[Notters]

Personally, if the facilities are good I'll have no problem with hanging around at the stadium for 45 minutes/an hour to let the crowds dissipate.

Even when a match finishes at 10.30?

 

[markw]

Are the rail companies working on this now ? Are they motivated by the revenue from match-day passengers ? or do they see it as an inconvenience ?

Its not the rail companies, network rail have been told to save 4 billion in the next 4 years, if they get together and work a deal then it might happen, how much income will the train companies make from it? It will be a shame to see a nice stadium with a poor transport system

 

[willingdon_seagull]

This would still only take up to 1,000 people. What about the other 15,000 that are planning to take the train?

Absolutley, completely agree but it would be better than only 3 or 4 coach trains surely?

 

[Hotchilidog]

Even when a match finishes at 10.30?

After the dizzying excitement of a penalty shoot out I would hope, I may be in the mood to celebrate.

I can't see too many games finishing at 10.30 though. Most evening games are due to finish around 9.30, with sky games around 9.45.

I'm pretty sure that there will be teething problems at Falmer, but there train, bus, park+ride and for some walking options in getting to and leaving the stadium. Of course there will inevitably be some hanging around to be done but this is to be expected at a busy stadium. I'm not overly concerned at this moment in time. People can always leave early if they really cannot afford to wait, as is common practice at pretty much every major sport venue.

 

[Brovion]

Am I right in thinking that if we'd had this debate at the planning enquiry and it had been picked up by our opponents, this could have been enough to put the kybosh on Falmer? Or would this have been dismissed as inconvenient but nothing serious?

I was AMAZED that more wasn't made of the rail capacity during stadium egress, and I believe it could have killed the whole project - especially as 'sustainable transport' was very much the buzzword we were using. If it did come up hopefully we could have covered it with waffle about ground frames, shuttles, minor signal improvements, platform alterations, staggered journeys, etc.

And, like I said earlier, I thought we would be able to find a solution to increase rail capacity. If we can't of course then we'll have to decrease rail demand - perhaps, as BLOCK F mentioned above the 'westies' will run coach services from Chichester, Arudel, Worthing, Lancing, Shoreham, etc.

Hope the coach parking will be adequate tho'.

 

[willingdon_seagull]

No reason why you cant send trains to Eastbourne & Newhaven empty but you've still got the problem of a lack of pathway's between Falmer and Brighton inbetween the regular booked services.

Thats the underpinning problem really then isnt it? The lack of pathways? The only pathway I can potentially see between Brighton and Lewes (correct me if I am wrong) is around about the on the hour mark as a booked train would leave Brighton at xx52 (Ore) then xx10 (Seaford) and xx22 (Lewes). Would an additional train leaving Brighton at 1400 be any good or would people still prefer to be in the pub at that time?
If a train departed Brighton at 1400 and called at Falmer only, would it have time to empty out at Falmer and be clear in time for the 1410 Seaford to not be affected?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Even when a match finishes at 10.30?

That doesn't happen very often.

After the penalty shootouts against Swindon and Manchester City were you one of the people who simply thought "Thank goodness that's over. I can go home to bed now"?

But, as Ernest has suggested, there is still the question of where do you keep all these trains, drivers and conductors that need to hang around waiting for the delayed end of a Tuesday night football match?

 

[Hunting 784561]

With the public service cutbacks now underway including the postponement of electrification of West coast line and possible delays to Crossrail would not think there is much chance of rail improvements to cope with a Football stadium.
I was one who originally said I would go by train but am changing my mind to P & R now. I know the club hope that we will all stagger our arrival and exit times but you only have to see the exodous from Withdean 5 minutes before the end of a match to know that many will just want to get away asap. That will be a big challenge for the railway.

Agreed. its terrible timing to ask for new infrastructure funds, even SEEDA is now being disbanded ( thanks for the new flyover chaps), but that doesn't mean that this problem is going to go away.

This isn't tinpot Withdean anymore, and if we get anywhere near capacity - which we probably will in the first couple of seasons - there are going to be some serious gridlock problems around Falmer station.

 

[Uter]

This would still only take up to 1,000 people. What about the other 15,000 that are planning to take the train?

There is no way that 16000 will choose to take the train to and from Falmer.