2017 Manchester arena attack

[The Large One]

Well, many of these terrorists are radicals because of their teachings, this has been highlighted by programmes on C4 for instance. Has anything really been done to close down these sources?. How long has it taken to arrest Choudary for example, his teachings attributed to the death of Drummer Rigby and possibly others. It has been put out that more than a dozen ex ISIS fighters have returned to the area around where the exposition went off, why were they allowed to just to "blend" in. How long has it taken to get rid of known radicals like Hamza. Even the ISIS flag is allowed to be flown on marches.
Tolerance and being frightened to upset a certain community has not helped those youngsters and others who have lost their lives.
Are we getting any trouble or deaths from any other religion/ideology in this country. I care more for the dead than upsetting those that cause it.

Until about 20 years ago, yes.

 

[Bigtomfu]

Not necessarily.

It could also mean that they have thus far been able to determine whether this attacker was working alone or was part of a bigger group so, in light of that, status moves to "critical" as a precautionary measure whilst those investigations continue. (This isn't my prognosis, but one I just heard from a supposed security expert on the radio)

Regardless, does it really change anything for any of us? We know that these attacks are now, sadly, becoming part of our lives. Not our every day lives because we are fortunate that those who wish to undertake these attacks are still relatively few and far between and our security services do a fantastic job in stopping most of them. Unfortunately, we know there will be a next time though, it's just a matter of when/where.

Yes both assertions could be true in equal measure re lone or cell but either way it's a step not taken lightly.

I went to uni with the son of a high ranking diplomat who used to inform his son when it would perhaps be best not to travel into central London (I would hasten to add this happened twice in four years) and I guess is that kind of knowledge which makes me uneasy in these types of situations, whether or not that's justified we'll never know.

The security services do a phenomenal job with so much going unknown. At work we had a talk from Eliza Manningham-Buller former Director General of MI5 last year who when referencing the shoe bomber talked about 14 other credible/viable terrorist acts that were foiled at the planning stage and I'm certain it can only be worse now.


Sometimes right, sometimes wrong but ALWAYS certain

 

[Soulman]

Come on man, you know the drill. If you're going to spout out something like this, you're gonna need to back it up with a source. That's a big statement.

I'm half interested in calling out your bs and half intetested in reading more about this if there is any proof whatsoever.

Ok, on mobile, but take a look at Radicalisation in UK jails, https://www.google.co.uk/search?ie=...+uk+jails&gfe_rd=cr&ei=P1ElWbOSOKWN8Qe4yYiwDg


So is it bs as you put it?

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Outside of those directly effected, I am not sure a friend of friend, or a university placement in Manchester 30 years ago, or a Ariana Grande ticket for a London concert due to take place this week really makes anyone closer or more empathetic to the tragedy than anyone else.

You don't understand why hearing that his colleagues friend has DIED, makes this atrocity over others seem 'closer'? Or why someone who's own daughter was due to attend the same concert two nights later, and could just as easily have been the bomber's arbitrary chosen target, would feel greater empathy with the families of the victims?

You seem really lovely.

So back to my point, whilst I wouldn't wish to travel to countries that only reflect western values, when in predominately Muslim Dubai you ask posters to desist in religious debate after a Islamic attack in Manchester, I think its a fair swipe to point out that human rights particularly discrimination against women in UAE is quite disgraceful.

Ignoring the question of whether it is 'fair' or otherwise, exactly WHY would anyone was a semblance of decency WISH to take a 'swipe' at somebody's post about their friend's personal loss?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

SO WE ALL NEED TO BE VIGILANT and encourage everyone else to be.

If someone wants to carry out an act like the one in Manchester they can a venue/place to do it; I go to numerous gigs of all sizes and they can't all be made secure. And to be honest I'm not sure I fully want this. So, yes, be vigilant, this is all we the pubic can do.

 

[Soulman]

Until about 20 years ago, yes.

But not now. Now and the future, not 20 years ago ffs.

 

[BigGully]

You don't understand why hearing that his colleagues friend has DIED, makes this atrocity over others seem 'closer'? Or why someone who's own daughter was due to attend the same concert two nights later, and could just as easily have been the bomber's arbitrary chosen target, would feel greater empathy with the families of the victims?

You seem really lovely.



Ignoring the question of whether it is 'fair' or otherwise, exactly WHY would anyone was a semblance of decency WISH to take a 'swipe' at somebody's post about their friend's personal loss?

You must remember I dont ask nor care if in your keyboard opinion you think I am kind or not, you couldnt possibly know anyway you are just babbling, just as you did when you barred someone for saying they didnt care much for David Bowies music, you're an irrelevance to me.

But on the point you raised, if you cared to keep up, I didnt swipe anything other than him asking for posters to desist from religious debate for some reason and yes absolutely I do not think his colleagues loss heightens his sadness above mine.

 

[The Large One]

But not now. Now and the future, not 20 years ago ffs.

Oh well, it was 20 years ago. I suppose those victims don't matter any more.

You wanted to know if the UK sustained prolonged terrorism by a particular group. The Troubles are well within many people's memories on here. To dismiss them so casually just because it doesn't suit your agenda is disgusting.

The fact is, and it has been said so many times on here that it's kind of insulting to have to repeat it, these are people who have hijacked a particular religion, taking in uneducated and disaffected (mostly) men and brainwashing them into... whatever they wish to have happen. Meanwhile, 'real' Muslims, are appalled to have had their religion hijacked in order for other cultures - especially those who have deliberately chosen not to understand - to vilify them.

It seems that there are many people with enough prejudice and ignorance about them to be happy to play along, giving the terrorists exactly what they want.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

You must remember I dont ask nor care if in your keyboard opinion you think I am kind or not, you couldnt possibly know anyway you are just babbling, just as you did when you barred someone for saying they didnt care much for David Bowies music, you're an irrelevance to me.

I'm sure you don't care who thinks you're a pompous, unkind tool. You're making that very evident.

The Bowie example I don't recall, but I suppose it was somebody making unnecessarily unkind comments in a TRIBUTE thread after his death. Such threads don't need people being tools, and tend to get banned from them, like you just have.

 

[studio150]

oh right, so you think it is acceptable that the flag of ISIS is allowed to be flown in marches on British soil? f*cking imbecile

When did a flag kill anyone. Does the flag not also give a big clue that an ISIS supporter may be where the flag is being flown. Still if you want to make the identification of such supporters more difficult.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You don't understand why hearing that his colleagues friend has DIED, makes this atrocity over others seem 'closer'? Or why someone who's own daughter was due to attend the same concert two nights later, and could just as easily have been the bomber's arbitrary chosen target, would feel greater empathy with the families of the victims?

You seem really lovely.



Ignoring the question of whether it is 'fair' or otherwise, exactly WHY would anyone was a semblance of decency WISH to take a 'swipe' at somebody's post about their friend's personal loss?

You must remember I dont ask nor care if in your keyboard opinion you think I am kind or not, you couldnt possibly know anyway you are just babbling, just as you did when you barred someone for saying they didnt care much for David Bowies music, you're an irrelevance to me.

But on the point you raised, if you cared to keep up, I didnt swipe anything other than him asking for posters to desist from religious debate for some reason and yes absolutely I do not think his colleagues loss heightens his sadness above mine.

Just to be pedantic and as a point of order - Hart's Shirt is a 'she'

 

[Soulman]

Oh well, it was 20 years ago. I suppose those victims don't matter any more.

You wanted to know if the UK sustained prolonged terrorism by a particular group. The Troubles are well within many people's memories on here.

Don't try the guilt trip and bringing up atrocities from 20 years ago. A good mate of mines cousin was blown away next to him in the back of a taxi.
The faCT is this thread is about NOW, the problem NOW, not 20 years ago.
I was appalled and hated the IRA then, so put your halo down.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This thread is grim reading and for a number of reasons. Thoroughly depressing times we live in.

 

[The Large One]

Don't try the guilt trip and bringing up atrocities from 20 years ago. A good mate of mines cousin was blown away next to him in the back of a taxi.
The faCT is this thread is about NOW, the problem NOW, not 20 years ago.
I was appalled and hated the IRA then, so put your halo down.

My 'halo'? 'Guilt trip'? Pitiful. Is that seriously your best response?

There are still people in Northern Ireland (a very few in comparison admittedly) who still wish to return to their armed struggle. So the answer to your original loaded question is still 'yes'.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Ok, on mobile, but take a look at Radicalisation in UK jails, https://www.google.co.uk/search?ie=...+uk+jails&gfe_rd=cr&ei=P1ElWbOSOKWN8Qe4yYiwDg


So is it bs as you put it?

Your links demonstrate that the government have set up a task force in conjunction with muslim communities to tackle radicalisation in prisons review here. Working together is the other way to defeat the extremists. I think there is a misconception, mainly because of how our media is that muslims in general are not helping, and perhaps also you protect and don't want to advertise you have security services working closely within them for obvious reasons. One of the biggest failures of 9/11 wasn't just a failure to share intel between agencies, it was a lack of assets / informants from within muslim communities. MI5 realised that they lacked a credible amount of contacts / informants after 9/11 in their own reviews, and you have to work hard to build trust, offer protection and security to anyone coming forward is doing the right thing. I think we have made ourselves safer through this process. Muslims are as fearful of their kids being radicalised as we are. These stories struggle to make the headlines in much of our press, but extremism is the enemy, because human beings, whatever religion they follow don't tend to desire harm to each other.

 

[Bold Seagull]

My 'halo'? 'Guilt trip'? Pitiful. Is that seriously your best response?

There are still people in Northern Ireland (a very few in comparison admittedly) who still wish to return to their armed struggle. So the answer to your original loaded question is still 'yes'.

And while they want that armed struggle, because trust and dialogue have been built upon through a peace process, regardless of how bumpy, you hope that those wishing to return to violence, would be informed upon by their communities who now have far more trust in peace and the security services, and dialogue than they ever did previously. Troops on the streets, intervention, suspicion, interrogation, intimidation doesn't solve violence, it feeds it. The threat is different for sure, but the means to tackle it remain the same - information, dialogue, trust, cooperation, coordination. It might have been 20 years ago, but it lasted 25 years and we have to learn from those policy mistakes.

 

[symyjym]

It’s quite surreal that his parents were anti Gaddafi and fled to the UK, yet he grew up with extremist ideas. We would probably class his parents as moderate Muslims and they probably are, but that fact that he grew up Muslim moderate or not, still opens a path for extremism. As I have said before if a Muslim can be brainwashed to justify the age of Aisha they can justify anything. The weak minded and deluded Muslims are ticking time bombs and they are easy pickings for their Islamic group leaders.

We think we are doing people a favour by taking out these dictators but in reality we “help” one generation only for the next generation to feel disenfranchised, go through an identity crisis and embrace extreme Islam.

With Mosul and Raqqa falling we are expecting hundreds of fighters coming back and there are reports of many having returned already. I can't believe that we seem to be aware of who they are and many are under surveillance, and that they are even able to get back into this country.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

I am not arguing against your post but it has not addressed the points I made. We know the authorities have thwarted many attacks, but these might have been prevented at source, long before.
It is well known that radicalization is going on in prisons, indeed some prisons seem to be run by preachers, what is being done.

It is an interesting point about prisons. The petty crime, radicalisation in prison, 'lone wolf' path does seem to have been trodden a few times and would seem one that there is some evidence that it would be worth concentrating on. Experience from Ireland would also indicate this. However that will need investment in staff, reduction in over-crowding, closer supervision etc.and the political appetite does not seem to be there for this.

 

[studio150]

Your links demonstrate that the government have set up a task force in conjunction with muslim communities to tackle radicalisation in prisons review here. Working together is the other way to defeat the extremists. I think there is a misconception, mainly because of how our media is that muslims in general are not helping, and perhaps also you protect and don't want to advertise you have security services working closely within them for obvious reasons. One of the biggest failures of 9/11 wasn't just a failure to share intel between agencies, it was a lack of assets / informants from within muslim communities. MI5 realised that they lacked a credible amount of contacts / informants after 9/11 in their own reviews, and you have to work hard to build trust, offer protection and security to anyone coming forward is doing the right thing. I think we have made ourselves safer through this process. Muslims are as fearful of their kids being radicalised as we are. These stories struggle to make the headlines in much of our press, but extremism is the enemy, because human beings, whatever religion they follow don't tend to desire harm to each other.

A reasoned and intelligent insight.

Unfortunately there are people with far right views that want to combine the approach in 1930s Germany with that of 1950s America and segerate Muslims from our society by placing them in walled ghettos with identification emblems on all clothing and require them to travel separately etc. All in the name of safety of course.

 

[portlock seagull]

I never actually went out in Warrington as I lived briefly in Wigan and then moved to student digs in Rusholme were there was a more student kinda nightlife going on, I just drove to Warrington for about a year and half four days a week on my Vespa.

Rusholme - always good for a curry!