2017 Manchester arena attack

[Triggaaar]

Since you think religion is the problem, what do you want to do? Ban it? I am an athiest and I am quite relaxed about religion. The lad on radio 5 tonight, supporting the local community in Manchester, even though he's a Libyan muslim, resonates with that. Religion is not the problem. It is people.

Solution then?

Ban people!

I don't think it is acceptable that someone 'known to the security services' should be running about at large right now.

How many people are 'known to the security services' and how many of them know they are known? If it's a handful, it's manageable to be a bit draconian, but if it's thousands it's not easy to lock them all up without some proper evidence.

 

[Eeyore]

SO WE ALL NEED TO BE VIGILANT and encourage everyone else to be.

I'm not sure what it is we need to be more vigilant about. That is why I am wary of reports of various states of alert.

If anyone sees suspicious activity they should report it- we've known that from the days of the IRA campaigns which were more frequent than this.

The word 'vigilant' concerns me though as its context lends itself to different interpretation. When the IRA were bombing parts of the country our lives just continued as normal. Does this vigilance mean making assumptions about certain groups in society ? Only that is what I am getting from some folk, even in here.

 

[carlzeiss]

I'm not sure what it is we need to be more vigilant about. That is why I am wary of reports of various states of alert.

If anyone sees suspicious activity they should report it- we've known that from the days of the IRA campaigns which were more frequent than this.

The word 'vigilant' concerns me though as its context lends itself to different interpretation. When the IRA were bombing parts of the country our lives just continued as normal. Does this vigilance mean making assumptions about certain groups in society ? Only that is what I am getting from some folk, even in here.

If you are concerned about being vigilant then just don't bother .

 

[Triggaaar]

Well, many of these terrorists are radicals because of their teachings, this has been highlighted by programmes on C4 for instance. Has anything really been done to close down these sources?. How long has it taken to arrest Choudary for example, his teachings attributed to the death of Drummer Rigby and possibly others. It has been put out that more than a dozen ex ISIS fighters have returned to the area around where the exposition went off, why were they allowed to just to "blend" in. How long has it taken to get rid of known radicals like Hamza. Even the ISIS flag is allowed to be flown on marches.
Tolerance and being frightened to upset a certain community has not helped those youngsters and others who have lost their lives.
Are we getting any trouble or deaths from any other religion/ideology in this country. I care more for the dead than upsetting those that cause it.

I think you mix sensible points with religious xenophobia, so your constructive debate gets lost.

 

[Eeyore]

If you are concerned about being vigilant then just don't bother .

It's a natural part of our lives to note suspicious activity. It is an inherited trait to assume suspicion on the basis of someone's creed or colour.

When I was a child I was told to be wary of black people, I was told to not trust the Irish. Those days are gone and I am no worse for throwing off those indoctrinations.

I refuse to add another cloak of prejudice and invite anyone to give true reason as to why I should. For this, for some, is where it is leading.

 

[Triggaaar]

oh right, so you think it is acceptable that the flag of ISIS is allowed to be flown in marches on British soil?

It depends if the authorities are allowing it so that they can gather information on those marching with it. If they're not, and it's just us being tolerant, then no, I don't think it's acceptable, and in my view it breaks the law of preaching hate. But I imagine our security services can use these marches to help stop attacks, which has got to be worth it, has it not?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It's a natural part of our lives to note suspicious activity. It is an inherited trait to assume suspicion on the basis of someone's creed or colour.

When I was a child I was told to be wary of black people, I was told to not trust the Irish. Those days are gone and I am no worse for throwing off those indoctrinations.

I refuse to add another cloak of prejudice and invite anyone to give true reason as to why I should. For this, for some, is where it is leading.

Everyone just needs to do their own risk assessment in any given situation. The results will be different for you than others. I'm sure that's fine.

 

[symyjym]

A reasoned and intelligent insight.

Unfortunately there are people with far right views that want to combine the approach in 1930s Germany with that of 1950s America and segerate Muslims from our society by placing them in walled ghettos with identification emblems on all clothing and require them to travel separately etc. All in the name of safety of course.

Sounds similar to the Pact of Umar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pact_of_Umar

These are the rules the Christians and Jews had to live under when under Muslim control. Make no mistake that this is Sharia and 1,400 years before Hitler.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

It's a natural part of our lives to note suspicious activity. It is an inherited trait to assume suspicion on the basis of someone's creed or colour.

When I was a child I was told to be wary of black people, I was told to not trust the Irish. Those days are gone and I am no worse for throwing off those indoctrinations.

I refuse to add another cloak of prejudice and invite anyone to give true reason as to why I should. For this, for some, is where it is leading.

Being vigilant doesn't mean being suspicious of anyone without white skin. It means when you enter a public place, say a theatre, note your escape route, if you work somewhere that needs ID make sure your ID is secure, make sure people don't follow you through a security door etc etc

 

[Insel affe]

Sounds similar to the Pact of Umar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pact_of_Umar

These are the rules the Christians and Jews had to live under when under Muslim control. Make no mistake that this is Sharia and 1,400 years before Hitler.

And some say history repeats its self....

Meh....

 

[Eeyore]

Being vigilant doesn't mean being suspicious of anyone without white skin

Alas, it does for some.

It means when you enter a public place, say a theatre, note your escape route If you work somewhere that needs ID make sure your ID is secure, make sure people don't follow you through a security door etc etc

Agreed.

 

[spence]

Being vigilant doesn't mean being suspicious of anyone without white skin. It means when you enter a public place, say a theatre, note your escape route, if you work somewhere that needs ID make sure your ID is secure, make sure people don't follow you through a security door etc etc

Not the way i see it i'm afraid. Being vigilant to me means looking out for suspicious behaviour or activity. Like someone wearing a long coat on a hot day.
Rightly so that men with beards or muslims will fall under the spotlight more. That's the nature of the beast.

 

[TomandJerry]

Police officer among bombing dead and family injured

 

[Saint Lennard]

I'm not sure what it is we need to be more vigilant about. That is why I am wary of reports of various states of alert.

If anyone sees suspicious activity they should report it- we've known that from the days of the IRA campaigns which were more frequent than this.

The word 'vigilant' concerns me though as its context lends itself to different interpretation. When the IRA were bombing parts of the country our lives just continued as normal. Does this vigilance mean making assumptions about certain groups in society ? Only that is what I am getting from some folk, even in here.

If we had more vigilance then more be reported and the police and security services job would be made easier. That's nothing to do with groups it's about people reporting suspicious circumstances. It would help them be on the front foot more.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

This investigation seems to be farcical with the US and French authorities having a case of the verbal diarrhoea. The US authorities cant help themselves.

 

[symyjym]

Police officer among bombing dead and family injured

Yes, just been confirmed. I guess he may have spotted something suspicious and tried to intervene.

 

[symyjym]

This investigation seems to be farcical with the US and French authorities having a case of the verbal diarrhoea. The US authorities cant help themselves.

What are they saying?

 

[BBassic]

If we had more vigilance then more be reported and the police and security services job would be made easier. That's nothing to do with groups it's about people reporting suspicious circumstances. It would help them be on the front foot more.

I agree re vigilance and being alert but it could, feasibly, get to a point where profiling starts to happen.

Small group of dark-skinned men wearing backpacks chatting together before going their separate ways? Could be any number of things yet some people in society would view that as suspicious and, wanting to be vigilant, would report it. It's tough and it's genuinely distressing that we live in a world where those sorts of thoughts can be entertained.

Also distressing, for me, is the sight of soldiers outside Parliament. A crazy world we live in right now.

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

What are they saying?

They originally announced who the killer was whilst our security services were trying to keep it quiet during investigations. Amber Rudd said that was dissapointing.

However, despite the warning from Rudd the US authorities have just confirmed that Salman Abdi's dad warned our security services that he was dangerous.

I mean is that helpful? Why are they leaking all this information to the press during an on-going investigation.

 

[CHAPPERS]

What are they saying?

The Americans leaked the name.