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[Politics] Labour Party meltdown incoming.......



C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 18, 2009
5,001
clapham_gull said:
I didn't state that. That's completely different from wanting to dump all green policies.

It's obvious immigration is an issue. Not many disagree with that, but the discussion was whether most people actually fundamentally disagree with the policies of the right wing, but polls are suggesting they would vote for them.

Another example being the NHS of course.

I've also found immigration an interesting topic when it comes to Brexit. It was clear to me that immigration would increase as a result, because that was the plan.

Whatever Farage was banging about was irrelevant, he didn't have a seat at the table.

So being anti-immigration and rejoin are not mutually exclusive anymore, because many people thought Brexit = Lower Immigration. How could it ?
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Brexit could equal anything politically, as it unencumbered the U.K. from EU law and provides a level of political liberation for U.K. politicians and institutions that’s not been possible since the Maastricht treaty. That’s the unvarnished truth.

If (post Brexit) the UK’s political leadership promise an objective like taking back control of the country’s borders which they fail miserably to achieve through negligence or backsliding then they will be punished by the electorate at the next opportunity.

Immigration has been and remains a top tier political issue in this country, and the wider western democracies. This is because the politicians historically have been broadly aligned with a lassiez faire approach despite resistance (to a lesser or greater extent) from native populations. Brexit was a symptom of that resistance because (rightly or wrongly) UK politicians and institutions would point to EU laws and conventions that inhibited any ability to deal it. The electorate removed that problem.

The western democracies political pendulums are swinging to politicians who are not lassiez faire, hence Trump, Wilders, Meloni etc. As Trump and others are proving anything is possible politically if the political leadership and its institutions wills it, even lower migration.
 




WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
28,507
cunning fergus said:
Brexit could equal anything politically, as it unencumbered the U.K. from EU law and provides a level of political liberation for U.K. politicians and institutions that’s not been possible since the Maastricht treaty. That’s the unvarnished truth.

If (post Brexit) the UK’s political leadership promise an objective like taking back control of the country’s borders which they fail miserably to achieve through negligence or backsliding then they will be punished by the electorate at the next opportunity.

Immigration has been and remains a top tier political issue in this country, and the wider western democracies. This is because the politicians historically have been broadly aligned with a lassiez faire approach despite resistance (to a lesser or greater extent) from native populations. Brexit was a symptom of that resistance because (rightly or wrongly) UK politicians and institutions would point to EU laws and conventions that inhibited any ability to deal it. The electorate removed that problem.

The western democracies political pendulums are swinging to politicians who are not lassiez faire, hence Trump, Wilders, Meloni etc. As Trump and others are proving anything is possible politically if the political leadership and its institutions wills it, even lower migration.
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Still taking the Farage line I see.

"Brexit would be brilliant, but they did it all wrong" :laugh:
 


D

dsr-burnley

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2014
2,805
cunning fergus said:
Even if you’re right once again the prima facie optics of this issue look like Starmer is overseeing the payment of billions of pounds of British taxpayers money for an issue the vast majority of the country couldn’t care less about.

Putting this 18bn payment through the prism of ever increasing taxes and removal of WFA is another political horror show. If there is anything that even squeaks to the prospect of those involved (i.e, Starmer’s mates from his legal chambers) profiteering from this arrangement this could be catastrophic.

Time will tell.
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The scandal of the Chagos Islands wasn't that the land belongs to a country 4,000 miles away instead of a country 1,000 miles away. The scandal was that the inhabitants were forxibly removed and resettled.

The first thing they need to do with these islands is to ask the displaced Chagossians, both in the UK and in Mauritius, what they want to do. Then do it.

After that, assuming there is now a resident population in Chagos, we can ask them what should happen next. An arrangement similar to what we have in St Helena being a likely proposition IMO.

What Starmer is hoping to do is shuffle the entire issue off to Mauritius so that when the displaced Chagossians complain, he can tell them it's nowt to do with him so they hang sling their hook. The benefit is that he has the word of a foreign judge with no jurisdiction to use as his justification, and to Starmer, if he can find a law to use as an excuse for any action, he will. The concept of "the law is an ass, and it doesn't apply to us" is not a concept he would use.
 


K

Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
58,892
hassocks
peterward said:


The Chagos that are 1000+ miles from Mauritius and have never historically been Mauritian territory, and Two Tier Keir is doubling the money for them to take our Sovereign and vitally important strategic territory, bowing the knee as our own pensioners freeze and NI rises due to an alleged black hole.
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it works out at £350 million pounds a week someone tweeted

Hopefully the USA veto it
 


Curious Orange

Curious Orange

Punxsatawney Phil
Jul 5, 2003
10,356
On NSC for over two decades...
cunning fergus said:
Immigration has been and remains a top tier political issue in this country, and the wider western democracies. This is because the politicians historically have been broadly aligned with a lassiez faire approach despite resistance (to a lesser or greater extent) from native populations. Brexit was a symptom of that resistance because (rightly or wrongly) UK politicians and institutions would point to EU laws and conventions that inhibited any ability to deal it. The electorate removed that problem.
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The thing is, governments now have had several years where they have had actual control over the number of people who can legally enter the country... and they don't appear to have done anything to bring the numbers down. Instead they deflect by talking about illegal immigration and small boats, which really is a separate issue and doesn't massively inflate the net incoming population.
 






B

Bodian

Well-known member
May 3, 2012
15,627
Cumbria
Kinky Gerbil said:
it works out at £350 million pounds a week someone tweeted

Hopefully the USA veto it
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But that's complete bollocks.

£18bn/£350m = 51.42

They've literally divided £18bn by 52 weeks*. So - one year.

But the £18bn is to do with a 99-year lease.

(* or maybe they are using the old, outdated UK definition of a billion?)
 


A

AlbionBro

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,573
Berty23 said:
So because the public believe nonsense they read that makes it true? The public also massively overestimate proportions who are immigrants, Muslims, teenage mums etc. views are not facts. S
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Its my opinion that Starmer was indeed a very bad choice for Labour, and most of us got sucked in by him. Please can you answer my original question, do you support and back Starmer?
 
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C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 18, 2009
5,001
Curious Orange said:
The thing is, governments now have had several years where they have had actual control over the number of people who can legally enter the country... and they don't appear to have done anything to bring the numbers down. Instead they deflect by talking about illegal immigration and small boats, which really is a separate issue and doesn't massively inflate the net incoming population.
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I don’t disagree, and fundamentally immigration is an issue which represents a breakdown of the social contract between citizens and its Government. And let’s be honest, there’s a few isn’t there……..post office, Hillsborough, net zero, blood contamination, et al.

The issue of the boats is in some ways a detail, however it’s the optics and related political decisions connected with that issue that are amplified in the public’s consciousness. No Government will last if they have a policy intentionally or otherwise that allows the British taxpayer to feel like they are having the piss taken out of them.

That’s the small boat issue in a nutshell. It’s unbelievable politically that a Government (of any colour) wouldn’t get a grip of it. If they do they could be in power for a generation.
 












WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
28,507
Bodian said:
Strong and speedy action taken. Just what we want to see.
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That's probably why @Titanic has highlighted it. Because the last time i chatted to him, he was really unhappy with the way the party he has been a member of for the last few decades got taken over. I'm guessing he still feels the same about Kemi as he did about Johnson and Truss :wink:
 








C

cunning fergus

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 18, 2009
5,001
Bodian said:
Strong and speedy action taken. Just what we want to see.
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What we want to see is a Government that deserves to govern us, so far the new lot are just continuity tories arguably even worse.

Sort out the appalling energy prices, restore WFA, cut taxes and end waste of tax payers money on migrants, Ukraine etc. and they can govern for a generation………there’s your speedy action we want to see.
 






WATFORD zero

WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
28,507
cunning fergus said:
What we want to see is a Government that deserves to govern us, so far the new lot are just continuity tories arguably even worse.

Sort out the appalling energy prices, restore WFA, cut taxes and end waste of tax payers money on migrants, Ukraine etc. and they can govern for a generation………there’s your speedy action we want to see.
Click to expand...

So, increase spending, reduce taxes and I see some things never change



:dunce:
 




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