To the First point that is correct. To the Second point......probably!
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[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)
- Thread starter vegster
- Start date
The Fifth Column
Lazy mug
Some ill informed internet missile experts on here! As someone with a military background in electronic warfare and anti missile knowledge i can say with a degree of accuracy that the Russians do not possess the tech or ability to be able to shoot down their own anti aircraft missiles that they've just fired, these things travel at hypersonic speeds and take seconds from launch to target you simply wouldnt have time to make that decision and then fire another missile which would need to have a faster speed than the first one, its a ridiculous idea. Next up, Russian anti aircraft missile tech is way behind all modern western systems, their missiles are proximity fused, heat signature or radar guided, sometimes a combo of those. Many are fire and forget or autonomously controlled with transmitted live targetting data, any decision to abort a launch usually consists of instructing the missile to simply fly away from the target until it expends its fuel and then either fall to earth or detonate harmlessly midair. Heat seeking missiles target the hot engines and exhaust gases, the others are generally designed to get as close.to the largest metal fuselage mass as possible before detonation, this will in almost every case result in catastrophic damage to any aircraft flying at speed, they don't target the cockpit that would require a level of technical sophistication the Russians simply dont possess besides the flight controls which run within the fuselage and flight surfaces of the wings and tail are.much more likely to be hit and successfully bring down an aircraft. Most likely system used to down the airliner in this event is the Pantsir S1 which is actually a pretty decent system but probably crewed by rookies since all the decent experienced crews will be in Ukraine (or already dead), if it wasnt a targetted attack they probably thought they were shooting down a large ukrainian attack drone or had it on auto and were pissed on vodka which isnt as unbelievable as it sounds.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,547
All those times in nearly three years of war, that the Russians claimed 'we shot down all the missiles' were a bit wide of the mark then?
Indeed.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,547
The Finns went fishing and caught a whopper:
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,547
Very briefly, at 16:25 hours, the exchange rate dropped to 0.0092, but by 16:30, it had returned to 0.0095. They are fire-fighting.
Sirnormangall
Well-known member
- Sep 21, 2017
- 3,260
As the Baltic Sea now comprises only NATO members (Russia excepted) can’t we put further pressure on Russia by blockading / restricting access to their ports and restricting the movement of their ships? Might break international law - but that’s what Putin does.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,547
The west should canvass all the Nato members for their input. Russia has only Russia to discuss strategy with; it is at a huge disadvantage. The west has a huge pool of experience and know-how to draw on.
Blockading /restricting access to Russian ports may need to be a weapon in a future conflict, but I have been very impressed with the effectiveness of the sanctions so far.
Sure, Russia has found ways to partially circumvent them, what with shadow fleets etc, but it is always on the back foot, seeking agreements with less than optimal trading partners. This is good. It means gradual weakening, in a manageable, non-escalating way. Death by a thousand cuts, many of which won't be seen by our Russian savages.
Sirnormangall
Well-known member
- Sep 21, 2017
- 3,260
Yes sanctions have to remain butt must be enforced - I’ve read recently ( different sources) that there have been numerous breaches in the UK yet only one prosecution.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,547
Yes, there have been transgressions, in the US, UK and France that I know of. They absolutely need to be enforced, followed up, and prosecuted.
Japan to transfer $3 billion from frozen Russian assets to Ukraine, Zelensky says
In a phone call with Japanese Prime Minister Shigeru Ishiba, Zelensky expressed his gratitude for Japan's previous aid to Ukraine, which has totaled $12 billion and "makes it possible to save thousands of lives."
kyivindependent.com
SeagullinExile
Well-known member
Blockading ports would also be a declaration of war, something that NATO won’t do. It is a defensive pact after all.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,547
I googled 'Can Nato declare war' and this is what came back:
'Yes, Nato can declare war if one of its member states is attacked, triggering Article 5 of the Nato treaty'.
I then googled 'Would Nato declare war' and I got this:
'No. NATO is just a defense alliance. NATO cannot declare War on anyone. That would be up to the countries that are NATO members.'
I hope this has cleared things up.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,547
The US reveals further evidence that Russia brought down the Azeri plane:
happypig
Staring at the rude boys
Well that told me
, I probably spend way to much time watching youtube videos.Shropshire Seagull
Well-known member
Shooting down anything coming towards you is way more achievable than objects traveling away (catch me if you can).
All about interception...
That said, we've all learned that anything Russia says must be taken with a truck load of salt.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,547
Interception? Why wasn't I told that missiles can be intercepted?
There was me thinking you have to be in the same location as the anti-aircraft system, and chase the offending missile with another one of the same speed !
For nearly three years I have been wondering how the Ukrainians achieved such a high rate of downing Russian missiles. Well, now I know ! They weren't in the same location at all were they? I'll wager they were using different missiles as well !
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Perhaps it is correct that a Russian anti-aircraft system cannot bring down one of its own missiles. But perhaps it doesn't matter. Perhaps there was more than one Pantsir anti-aircraft system in operation, in a different location. The plane is reported to have to have made three attempts at an emergency landing at Grozny. Russia may then have tried several times to bring the plane down as it circled, before sending it out over the Caspian sea in an attempt to cover up the evidence. Perhaps the investigation will find out the true sequence of events.
Several scenarios come to mind;
1. Mistake + cover up.
2. Intentional + cover up.
3. Mistake + intentional + cover up.
It is important to keep an open mind. Except in the case of Russian guilt, which of course, is nailed on. The common denominator is the cover up.
- Aug 24, 2020
- 7,547
Putin apologises for 'tragic incident'.
Sirnormangall
Well-known member
- Sep 21, 2017
- 3,260
True, but a great shame as the Black Sea provides a similar opportunity. Whilst a blockade seem out of the question we should surely make it more difficult for Russian ships to carry out their alleged sabotage activities - get on the front foot and harass them. let them know we know what they are doing. I’m sure “the west” tells Putin that through the usual diplomatic channels but let’s see some action otherwise he’ll see it as just words and another weakness to continue to exploit. I appreciate it’s sometimes difficult to draw a line between defensive and offensive activities, and whilst I’m no warmonger maybe it’s time to gently up the ante and be a bit more Captain Mainwaring and less Seargent Wilson.
Is repeatedly destroying underwater cables not an act of war?