[Politics] The Labour Government

WATFORD zero said:

The employers NI increase will, at worst, only put us back to where we were in January when the last government decided to cut it.

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Righto

Is it PotG? said:

Righto

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And I won't mention the further cut in April costing the Treasury a total over £10B per year, or nearly half the black hole, because I wouldn't want anyone to look foolish

Looks like the Prime Minister could have an uncomfortable time at the Commonwealth summit.


I assume that the mooted conversation also happens with those West African countries that sold people into the trans-Atlantic slave trade in the first place.

Curious Orange said:

Looks like the Prime Minister could have an uncomfortable time at the Commonwealth summit.

Commonwealth heads of government to defy UK on slavery reparations

Downing Street insists a discussion about the issue is not on the agenda for the summit of 56 Commonwealth countries.

www.bbc.co.uk

I assume that the mooted conversation also happens with those West African countries that sold people into the trans-Atlantic slave trade in the first place.

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Somewhat awkward for our Foreign Sec. after what he has previously said on the matter.

Commander said:

So even if the cost was the same, I would still rather hire somebody in South Africa than somebody in Brighton. Young people that want / need to work and who are desperate to learn and better themselves and who are resilient and driven compared to entitled kids who think they know best and go to pieces at the first sign of adversity.

I have seen it in Brighton over and over and over again. They aren’t all like it, and we have found some diamonds (two recruited from NSC in fact) but the sad fact is that the majority were exactly as I describe. It really is a no-brainer in what I do. And that is a real shame, because it definitely wasn’t like that when I was in my 20’s and looking for an opportunity to get ahead in life.

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Every year company I worked for took on apprentices, paid for them to attend college/uni & generally ended up as valued staff. In recent year that changed, either sit there spending much of the time on their phones, put them away for a short time but back out again, seemed to think college was optional or a chance to have a day off, didn't like being told where they'd made a mistake & disrespected experienced colleagues ignoring their advice. Obviously not all but there seemed to be a trend.

Curious Orange said:

Looks like the Prime Minister could have an uncomfortable time at the Commonwealth summit.

Commonwealth heads of government to defy UK on slavery reparations

Downing Street insists a discussion about the issue is not on the agenda for the summit of 56 Commonwealth countries.

www.bbc.co.uk

I assume that the mooted conversation also happens with those West African countries that sold people into the trans-Atlantic slave trade in the first place.

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This is a topic which would require conversation of it's own.

Commander said:

Something has definitely changed. As an example, when I was in my 20s we’d get hammered in the pub on a week night and then struggle through work the next day. Wouldn’t dream of calling in sick hungover, because you’d get so much shit from the people you were out with if you did. You’d just get through it the next day.

This lot not only call in sick for it, but frame it as ‘mental health challenges’ or something as the excuse. We had one girl who consistently had Mondays and Tuesdays off to ‘focus on meditation and deep breathing’ for her anxiety. She failed to mention she was putting 3 grams of ketamine up her nose every Saturday and Sunday. Hardly surprising she had to sit in a dark room on Mondays and Tuesdays.

Another guy took two days off ‘because he was tired’. At 20 years old. Another complained to me that it was unfair that the Directors could go for a long lunch on a Friday and that if they were allowed to do that, then everybody else should be. Another told me that he wasn’t going to hit his OTE earnings for the year because he was miles off his target, so wanted to know what I was going to do to make up the shortfall.

Honestly, I could bore people for hours with stories of being an employee of young people in central Brighton. No more though, I’m off-shoring all this shit until I retire.

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A family member owns his own recruitment company in Brighton and reports the same thing, his company has taken the same approach as yourself in trying to get as many overseas people on the books as possible - the hassle locals bring isn't worth it half the time.

I've seen first hand how someone who was "desperate " for a job get angry as they were expected to go in the office 2 days a week for a potential job.

WATFORD zero said:

And I won't mention the further cut in April costing the Treasury a total over £10B per year, or nearly half the black hole, because I wouldn't want anyone to look foolish

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I presume you aren't going to mention the difference between Employees' and Employer's NIC either?

carlzeiss said:

Labour MP labels Keir Starmer’s reparations refusal "embarrassing"

Calls grow louder for reparations as Keir Starmer meets with Commonwealth leaders at a summit in Samoa after King Charles was confronted in Australia over Britain's role in colonialism

www.mirror.co.uk

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Britain have “got off” (relatively) scot-free on this front. Contrast and compare the billions given away in straight cash payments, rebates and free services in Canada to indigenous people.

dsr-burnley said:

I presume you aren't going to mention the difference between Employees' and Employer's NIC either?

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My first post which was about Employers NI, so it specified 'employers NI' and my second post was about total NI, so it specified 'total NI'

jcdenton08 said:

Britain have “got off” (relatively) scot-free on this front. Contrast and compare the billions given away in straight cash payments, rebates and free services in Canada to indigenous people.

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Being an indigenous person in England I would be most pleased to accept a generous cash payment

carlzeiss said:

Labour MP labels Keir Starmer’s reparations refusal "embarrassing"

Calls grow louder for reparations as Keir Starmer meets with Commonwealth leaders at a summit in Samoa after King Charles was confronted in Australia over Britain's role in colonialism

www.mirror.co.uk

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Starmer is 100% correct on this, it will be endless, how far do you go back?
How do you put a cost on Britain helping ending it?

We should be concentrating on ending the slavery today

Kinky Gerbil said:

A family member owns his own recruitment company in Brighton and reports the same thing, his company has taken the same approach as yourself in trying to get as many overseas people on the books as possible - the hassle locals bring isn't worth it half the time.

I've seen first hand how someone who was "desperate " for a job get angry as they were expected to go in the office 2 days a week for a potential job.

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Is this common in the recruitment sector? If so, it's a crazy situation to be in where seemingly there no one in Britain who is suitable to work. Fruit picking is another. Was it better before Brexit?

Herr Tubthumper said:

Is this common in the recruitment sector? If so, it's a crazy situation to be in where seemingly there no one in Britain who is suitable to work. Fruit picking is another. Was it better before Brexit?

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Outside the local area The Wife is a manager in recruitment for an airline, overseas applicants are more willing and the airline is starting to see paying for Visas for overseas applicants as a better investment than the drama/"effort"/ entitlement some UK applicants bring

That is not a Brighton thing of course, which was the initial point.... but its a worry

No idea on fruit picking

Kinky Gerbil said:

Starmer is 100% correct on this, it will be endless, how far do you go back?
How do you put a cost on Britain helping ending it?

We should be concentrating on ending the slavery today

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I agree. Even if the UK spent close to 2% of the gross national income on ending slavery throughout the world. the people whose distant ancestors were slaves would still be demanding more. We know that, because that's what the British Empire did in the first half of the 19th century, not only to abolish slavery in the Empire, but also around the world.

We should apologise to any surviving slaves and perhaps their children, but the rest is history.

WATFORD zero said:

I'm sorry, that was worded very poorly. I appreciate the amount of work, hassle and stress that goes into building businesses having done it a few times myself (getting a lucky break in my early twenties after pissing about since leaving school at 15 with a few GCEs) and then working my guts out employing a couple of hundred people directly (and hundreds more before when I was an employee). So I have some understanding of the issues with recruiting and building businesses. And I found making people redundant the worst, albeit there is normally no other alternative to the whole thing going down. I also inherited a number of offshore functions and found that rather than being easier they were even more stressful. Don't underestimate the advantages of being able to chat informally to someone over a coffee or a pint.

The point I was trying to make, albeit badly, was that by offshoring everything to countries that have far worse working conditions than the UK, you are taking that very opportunity from anyone else in your or my situation in order to make a few more quid. You've always come across on here as someone who cares deeply about the ethics of your business, who they employ and how they are treated.

I can't see what this new bill will be asking that you probably don't do anyway, and the day1 rights can easily be overcome with a 3 month temporary contract, prior to permanent, something I've done in the past. I let people go in their first week (and paid them the month) a number of times if I felt it wasn't working out. The employers NI increase will, at worst, only put us back to where we were in January when the last government decided to cut it.

And if you can retire early, all the stress will seem worth it, even if it's questionable at the time.

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Fair enough. Thing is, I have given so many people an opportunity over the years, and over time the quality and willingness to listen and work from young people has just been on a downward spiral. As an example, of the 20 people I made redundant in 2023, 18 of them didn't last 12 months in the next job they went into. They all left us thinking I was the bad guy and that it was a crap company and that they were much better than us, yet virtually all of them couldn't hack it anywhere else, and the 2 that have were more experienced people anyway.

I'm sure there will probably be ways around the new bill, but to be honest I'm just a bit over the hassle of it all now, hence the off-shoring. I'm enjoying taking the dog for a 5 mile walk at 11am while I WFH rather than dealing with some 20 year old's anxiety issues on a Monday morning.

Herr Tubthumper said:

I agree. It was a generalisation. One I fessed up to in a subsequent post to @Commander . I stand by the fact that if you obtain a qualification in anything, academic or vocational, it does demonstrate a level of application.....but not necessarily conversely i.e. if you do not obtain qualifications it's a measure of lack of application.

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I disagree. It can do, but it can also do the opposite. I've interviewed so many Grads and said "Why did you go to Uni, and why did you choose to study xxx?" A large proportion of them pretty much say they didn't know what else to do. Staying in education is the easy option for many people.

fly high said:

Every year company I worked for took on apprentices, paid for them to attend college/uni & generally ended up as valued staff. In recent year that changed, either sit there spending much of the time on their phones, put them away for a short time but back out again, seemed to think college was optional or a chance to have a day off, didn't like being told where they'd made a mistake & disrespected experienced colleagues ignoring their advice. Obviously not all but there seemed to be a trend.

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Yep. Follows exactly what I have witnessed.

Kinky Gerbil said:

A family member owns his own recruitment company in Brighton and reports the same thing, his company has taken the same approach as yourself in trying to get as many overseas people on the books as possible - the hassle locals bring isn't worth it half the time.

I've seen first hand how someone who was "desperate " for a job get angry as they were expected to go in the office 2 days a week for a potential job.

Click to expand...

I know 4 or 5 other Recruitment MDs and they all say the same. I've had people tell me in interview that they will do "absolutely anything to succeed" and then quit before lunchtime on day 1.

Herr Tubthumper said:

Is this common in the recruitment sector? If so, it's a crazy situation to be in where seemingly there no one in Britain who is suitable to work. Fruit picking is another. Was it better before Brexit?

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It is a ridiculous situation. In Recruitment, if you are in a good market and go to a good company, then if you go into it at 20 with no qualifications and take on board everything the company teaches you and work 7:30/8 - 6:30/7 5 days a week for 2 years, knowing that a couple of times a month you might have to work a bit later when you are extra busy, then you should be looking at earning 6 figures in your 3rd year, and for your working hours to drop as well, as you will be known in the market and people come to you rather than you having to find them. At 23 years old. I have seen many, many people achieve that. But each year the number of people doing it has got lower and lower, because they are more interested in 'work / life balance' and hybrid working etc.

For me, the work / life balance should come once you have achieved something and established yourself, it shouldn't be something you instantly get when starting a new career. But this ethos just doesn't seem to fit with that generation today, they want flexible working and all the perks NOW, they aren't prepared to work their way up to get it. They don't buy in to the idea of a Meritocracy at all, they think a system like that is unfair, and everyone should be equal from the start. I think they read about Google and Netflix etc and what the culture is like there, and expect it to be the same working in a provincial recruitment agency in Brighton. It's insane. So the answer seems to be to either adjust to this generation and their working practices and just accept much lower results, or find a group of people that will bite your hand off for an opportunity like that offshore.

I don't think Brexit has made a difference in that area. Where it has been a total disaster is trying to extract money out of European clients when their invoices are overdue, as it's virtually impossible to challenge it legally now.

Find me a Recruitment MD that doesn't launch into a rant when you mention Gen Z, and I will buy you a pint. Maybe ten pints.

Herr Tubthumper said:

Is this common in the recruitment sector? If so, it's a crazy situation to be in where seemingly there no one in Britain who is suitable to work. Fruit picking is another. Was it better before Brexit?

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No, they generally came from eastern Europe

Commander said:

Fair enough. Thing is, I have given so many people an opportunity over the years, and over time the quality and willingness to listen and work from young people has just been on a downward spiral. As an example, of the 20 people I made redundant in 2023, 18 of them didn't last 12 months in the next job they went into. They all left us thinking I was the bad guy and that it was a crap company and that they were much better than us, yet virtually all of them couldn't hack it anywhere else, and the 2 that have were more experienced people anyway.

I'm sure there will probably be ways around the new bill, but to be honest I'm just a bit over the hassle of it all now, hence the off-shoring. I'm enjoying taking the dog for a 5 mile walk at 11am while I WFH rather than dealing with some 20 year old's anxiety issues on a Monday morning.


I disagree. It can do, but it can also do the opposite. I've interviewed so many Grads and said "Why did you go to Uni, and why did you choose to study xxx?" A large proportion of them pretty much say they didn't know what else to do. Staying in education is the easy option for many people.


Yep. Follows exactly what I have witnessed.



I know 4 or 5 other Recruitment MDs and they all say the same. I've had people tell me in interview that they will do "absolutely anything to succeed" and then quit before lunchtime on day 1.


It is a ridiculous situation. In Recruitment, if you are in a good market and go to a good company, then if you go into it at 20 with no qualifications and take on board everything the company teaches you and work 7:30/8 - 6:30/7 5 days a week for 2 years, knowing that a couple of times a month you might have to work a bit later when you are extra busy, then you should be looking at earning 6 figures in your 3rd year, and for your working hours to drop as well, as you will be known in the market and people come to you rather than you having to find them. At 23 years old. I have seen many, many people achieve that. But each year the number of people doing it has got lower and lower, because they are more interested in 'work / life balance' and hybrid working etc.

For me, the work / life balance should come once you have achieved something and established yourself, it shouldn't be something you instantly get when starting a new career. But this ethos just doesn't seem to fit with that generation today, they want flexible working and all the perks NOW, they aren't prepared to work their way up to get it. They don't buy in to the idea of a Meritocracy at all, they think a system like that is unfair, and everyone should be equal from the start. I think they read about Google and Netflix etc and what the culture is like there, and expect it to be the same working in a provincial recruitment agency in Brighton. It's insane. So the answer seems to be to either adjust to this generation and their working practices and just accept much lower results, or find a group of people that will bite your hand off for an opportunity like that offshore.

I don't think Brexit has made a difference in that area. Where it has been a total disaster is trying to extract money out of European clients when their invoices are overdue, as it's virtually impossible to challenge it legally now.

Find me a Recruitment MD that doesn't launch into a rant when you mention Gen Z, and I will buy you a pint. Maybe ten pints.

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What are Gen X’s like, do you recruit in that age group?

Herr Tubthumper said:

Is this common in the recruitment sector? If so, it's a crazy situation to be in where seemingly there no one in Britain who is suitable to work. Fruit picking is another. Was it better before Brexit?

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Of course it was better as the European’s in most are grateful for the opportunity of work as oppose to local youngsters and have a better work ethic, i remember a few months or so ago there was a careers fair at the Brighton Centre, i dropped a recruiter from British Gas who remarked that there were more parents there trying to get work for the darlings ffs. I blame my generation to some degree as we have molycodled our kids!