Why do English born and bred "Indians" support India?

[ROSM]

I was asking you to give me examples of how ex-pats cause problems abroad similar to the ones caused by immigrants here , if you weren’t so far up your own arse you might have been able to see that, and it’s not people from Brighton who’s view is always wrong, it’s people who are happily telling everyone what a wonderful melting pot we live in , without having experienced first hand how an area can completely and utterly change , and not for the better, this can apply anywhere.

we could always use your favourite country Ireland. Loads of Brits going over there and then partitioning the country and making indiginous Irish feel like second class citizens in their own land and then wondering why they get a bit upset a few generations down the line.

Or there's India itself where we carried out the partitioning trick again.

I'd say both those scenarios are far worse than anything carried out by immigrants to the UK. But of course Ireland and India were official Government policies so probably wont count.

 

[alan partridge]

I was asking you to give me examples of how ex-pats cause problems abroad similar to the ones caused by immigrants here , if you weren’t so far up your own arse you might have been able to see that, and it’s not people from Brighton who’s view is always wrong, it’s people who are happily telling everyone what a wonderful melting pot we live in , without having experienced first hand how an area can completely and utterly change , and not for the better, this can apply anywhere.

'Go on then, I'm waiting.'

Oh, yeah, that question was crystal clear.

You know your views. Many equally applicable to Brits in Spain.

And don't give us that 'it's not people from Brighton who's view is always wrong', you constantly patronise and dismiss people who use this board because of where they come from.

 

[bazbha]

Given that the people you talk about live in England and are part of the culture. Getting them to integrate into English society must include English people accepting and embracing their culture to a certian degree. Expecting people to completely change their culture when moving to another country is unrealistic. I think their needs to be a certian amount of compromise on both sides.

Fair point & I assume you would adopt that same view point in Spain & Cyprus where ghetto's of British ex-pats have developed many of whom have made little effort to integrate with the native population. Obviously the Spanish & Cypriots should start reading The Sun, drinking pints of lager or bitter, eating fry-ups & Sunday roasts & have a punch-up on a Friday night rather than the many of the ex-pats actually learning the language & making some effort to adapt to their new home.

 

[Codner pharmaceuticals]

My Grandfather was Irish and my son born in Switzerland. Guess which team he supports? Or should I ask you to join me in throwing him out of Falmer?

 

[User removed 4]

we could always use your favourite country Ireland. Loads of Brits going over there and then partitioning the country and making indiginous Irish feel like second class citizens in their own land and then wondering why they get a bit upset a few generations down the line.

Or there's India itself where we carried out the partitioning trick again.

I'd say both those scenarios are far worse than anything carried out by immigrants to the UK. But of course Ireland and India were official Government policies so probably wont count.

Do you really expect this post to be taken seriously ? Howabout you blame me for cromwells massacre of drogheda while you're at it .

 

[User removed 4]

My Grandfather was Irish and my son born in Switzerland. Guess which team he supports? Or should I ask you to join me in throwing him out of Falmer?

Are you really , truly not grasping the original argument ? I dont think so to be honest, just another one shying away from the unpalatable truth.

 

[User removed 4]

'Go on then, I'm waiting.'

Oh, yeah, that question was crystal clear.

You know your views. Many equally applicable to Brits in Spain.

And don't give us that 'it's not people from Brighton who's view is always wrong', you constantly patronise and dismiss people who use this board because of where they come from.

you posted this "you could argue plenty that you yourself see wrong with immigration into this country", what was so difficult to understand about my answer?

 

[ROSM]

Do you really expect this post to be taken seriously ? Howabout you blame me for cromwells massacre of drogheda while you're at it .

Who was blaming you?

And I expect you to give the same respect to others views as you wish for your views to receive.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Who cause what harm/trouble ?

Operation Trafalgar sees British drug gang busted in Ibiza - Telegraph

 

[User removed 4]

Operation Trafalgar sees British drug gang busted in Ibiza - Telegraph

A two year old story of drug dealers on Ibiza is the best you can come up with ?

 

[User removed 4]

And I expect you to give the same respect to others views as you wish for your views to receive.

Dont put ridiculous posts up then !

 

[Triggaaar]

One of my grandfathers was Welsh, but I'm English and I support England if they play Wales at any sport.

So why are there thousands of English born at Lords supporting India?

Your example is slightly different, because (and I know some may not like it) the Welsh are the same race as the Englsih, and it sounds as if some of your grandparents were English?

Anyway, I was roughly thinking the same thing in while watching the test. If our country is to succeed, we need people who are born and bred here to feel that they are English/British. Asians that are born in America seem to feel American, we just need to be better at bonding.

 

[Triggaaar]

I think this is correct. I'm not convinced that supporting a national team in any sport is about truly being of that nation, so much as who, culturally, you are bought up to support.

Case in point; my mother is Welsh, and really into her rugby (she doesn't care for football), and my dad is English, loves football and can take or leave rugby. Hence I grew up watching football with my English dad and rugby with my Welsh mum. I 'support' England in football and Wales in rugby.

It seems a sizeable number of people of asian heritage support England in the football; however they've grown up with India-supporting parents when the cricket is on, and naturally developed an affinity with that team.

This!

 

[ROSM]

Dont put ridiculous posts up then !

ooh tetchy

In your opinion you may say ridiculous. But all things are shaped by history and I've picked just two historical moments that may demonstrate how brits have behaved when arriving in other countries. Some kind of informed counter argument from you would be nice.

 

[User removed 4]

ooh tetchy

In your opinion you may say ridiculous. But all things are shaped by history and I've picked just two historical moments that may demonstrate how brits have behaved when arriving in other countries. Some kind of informed counter argument from you would be nice.

Perhaps I should have put a smiley up, that was how it was intended to come across , anyway seriously, how can you compare historical acts perpetrated by the British, like the colonisation of Ireland, or indeed any country ,to the lack of social cohesion highlighted by the fact that the majority of south Asians in this country will support either India or Pakistan , over England , at Cricket.
How far do you want to go back ? I just don’t buy all this Bollocks about how “they support England at football”, that’s because cricket is the sport that matters to the majority of them , you can claim that there are family or heritage reasons for it, but that doesn’t cut any ice with me, or for a lot of others who don’t have, or want a “ choice” of who to support, its England or nothing for the vast majority of people here , and it should be for the fourth and fifth generation south Asians here , but I dont see any sign of that happening , do you ?

 

[sussexadz121]

I think this is correct. I'm not convinced that supporting a national team in any sport is about truly being of that nation, so much as who, culturally, you are bought up to support.

Case in point; my mother is Welsh, and really into her rugby (she doesn't care for football), and my dad is English, loves football and can take or leave rugby. Hence I grew up watching football with my English dad and rugby with my Welsh mum. I 'support' England in football and Wales in rugby.

It seems a sizeable number of people of asian heritage support England in the football; however they've grown up with India-supporting parents when the cricket is on, and naturally developed an affinity with that team.

this well said that man

 

[Seagull27]

I really think this is all a bit of a fuss over nothing. I'd understand the argument a little more if it was over religion, or political agenda, but I really don't think a sports team says much about how you live the rest of your life either way.

What about the people, either of Indian or English descent, who couldn't give a flying f*** about cricket, or any international sport. Should we be forcing them to support England just because they live here?

I have a fair few friends of English descent (and have seen plenty of people on here) who are big football fans and follow their club teams avidly, but don't care much for the national team. Some even prefer to watch other countries over England, but are not bothered that much either way. Are they in the wrong too for not being patriotic?

 

[cunning fergus]

You see here you go making analogies to some kind of hostile 'invasion' taking place at the moment. There isn't. The people that Bushy was talking about were very willingly let in to the country - in some case sthey were invited.

But you may have a point about the spanish - it would have prevented so many brits who go abroad each year and then complain about the foreign muck they have to eat and the lack of Strongbow available in the Costa Del Sol.

No I wasn't. I was pointing out that this country's cultural 'baggage' has not developed without murderous dictatorship's on the part of waves of invaders. After a 1000 years it may not really matter, but don't overlook the brutality that took place against peoples who did not want to live under the yoke of the romans or vikings etc and use it as a means of relativism with waves of immigrants.

As for making an anology, I tend to think that a country will always know when its been invaded (whether by hostile or peaceful means) when the invaders build stuff that comes from there own point of origin. The Romans did it on a grand scale (baths and civic builidings), the Viking and Normans on an even grander scale with mott and bailey castles, Cathedrals, the Tower of London) the British in India (Railways, Bridges and Parliament buildings).

Buildings are statements of intent................they say "look at us we're different from you". If there wasn't a point to be made invaders would build stuff sympathetically with local buildings, or use unused buildings.............but then they wouldn't really be invaders.



is invaded (whetehr hostile or not), the

 

[BadFish]

Fair point & I assume you would adopt that same view point in Spain & Cyprus where ghetto's of British ex-pats have developed many of whom have made little effort to integrate with the native population. Obviously the Spanish & Cypriots should start reading The Sun, drinking pints of lager or bitter, eating fry-ups & Sunday roasts & have a punch-up on a Friday night rather than the many of the ex-pats actually learning the language & making some effort to adapt to their new home.

Your examples of English culture are obviously cartoony in order to make your point but I think that if immigrants are made to feel welcome and their culture if valued then it is easier for them to adopt the culture of the country they have moved to. It is about integration, but it is bloody hard to integrate into a society that is hostile to you and that keeps pointing out the fact that you are from a different background.

1 simple and relevant example is that if some one calls me a Pommy wanker, or discounts a point in a discussion prefaced with pom. "what do you know you pommy wanker?" or similar is a phrase that i hear occasionally both with hostility and affectionately. This reinforces that I am different and my opinion is worth less because i am not born and bread (ironically i also heard it in Brighton because i spent the first 10 years of my life in Buckinghamshire). I know of ex pats here in Australia that life in 'UK communities' and have very little to do with Australian society. Who is not making the effort here? I'm not sure, the ex pats should certianly make effort to get out of their comfort zone and mix but i have assumed that their is a reason they haven't. I don't know what that reason in but i maybe they have not been made to feel welcome or they don't see anything of value in that Australian society.

So if this can happen between two cultures as similar as British and Australian (who really share more similarities than differences) then it must be acknowledged that it would be even more difficult to integrate markedly different cultures. In my opinion a bit more effort needs to be made on both sides to learn, appreciate and respect each others cultures. Otherwise the vicious cycle of hostility and mistrust causing a more fragmented society with pockets of different races and culture causing more mistrust and conflict.

 

[User removed 4]

Your examples of English culture are obviously cartoony in order to make your point but I think that if immigrants are made to feel welcome and their culture if valued then it is easier for them to adopt the culture of the country they have moved to. It is about integration, but it is bloody hard to integrate into a society that is hostile to you and that keeps pointing out the fact that you are from a different background.

1 simple and relevant example is that if some one calls me a Pommy wanker, or discounts a point in a discussion prefaced with pom. "what do you know you pommy wanker?" or similar is a phrase that i hear occasionally both with hostility and affectionately. This reinforces that I am different and my opinion is worth less because i am not born and bread (ironically i also heard it in Brighton because i spent the first 10 years of my life in Buckinghamshire). I know of ex pats here in Australia that life in 'UK communities' and have very little to do with Australian society. Who is not making the effort here? I'm not sure, the ex pats should certianly make effort to get out of their comfort zone and mix but i have assumed that their is a reason they haven't. I don't know what that reason in but i maybe they have not been made to feel welcome or they don't see anything of value in that Australian society.

So if this can happen between two cultures as similar as British and Australian (who really share more similarities than differences) then it must be acknowledged that it would be even more difficult to integrate markedly different cultures. In my opinion a bit more effort needs to be made on both sides to learn, appreciate and respect each others cultures. Otherwise the vicious cycle of hostility and mistrust causing a more fragmented society with pockets of different races and culture causing more mistrust and conflict.

WHY? If someone chooses to go somewhere then its up to them to fit in and adapt, end of story, you dont hear too many people on here exhorting people from brighton to make more effort to welcome the recent arrivals from london do you ? But that actually affects them personally.