[NSC] Vaccine passport required to enter Amex

[Albion Dan]

Some facts for you;

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html

I can’t see anything in your facts that shows that the virus mutates more or less for people with antibodies v vaccination v nothing?

I also can’t see anything that compares protection of those with antibodies from covid recovery v vaccination?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I can’t see anything in your facts that shows that the virus mutates more or less for people with antibodies v vaccination v nothing?

I also can’t see anything that compares protection of those with antibodies from covid recovery v vaccination?

Sorry, no, I was presenting you with facts to answer your queries about transmission of the virus in the vaccinated compared to the unvaccinated. The other stuff about mutations seemed to be speculation by you. Was I supposed to take that seriously ?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

I am vaccinated against my will because I had to travel to Europe for work. I am totally against vaccine coercion where people are entitled to be cautious of an experimental drug. Unfortunately I am not in a position where I can walk from my job.

All drugs are 'experimental' if you choose to ignore the thousands and thousands of people who took part in trials in the months before the vaccines were approved.

In my experience the word 'experimental' is a substitute for 'i don't like the vaccine and I'm going to kick off about it, stir it up, and then present some 'facts' that misrepresent data'. In my experience only of course.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

All drugs are 'experimental' if you choose to ignore the thousands and thousands of people who took part in trials in the months before the vaccines were approved.

In my experience the word 'experimental' is a substitute for 'i don't like the vaccine and I'm going to kick off about it, stir it up, and then present some 'facts' that misrepresent data'. In my experience only of course.

You old cynic ! Are you really suggesting that Dan is deliberately making stuff up ?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

You old cynic ! Are you really suggesting that Dan is deliberately making stuff up ?

Far be it for me to imply such a thing. But everyone has a conscience. I hope.

 

[drew]

I am vaccinated against my will because I had to travel to Europe for work. I am totally against vaccine coercion where people are entitled to be cautious of an experimental drug. Unfortunately I am not in a position where I can walk from my job.

I would suggest if you stand by your principles you could walk away from any job. There are of course consequences but hey, if you have an opinion then stand by it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I am vaccinated against my will because I had to travel to Europe for work. I am totally against vaccine coercion where people are entitled to be cautious of an experimental drug. Unfortunately I am not in a position where I can walk from my job.

All the approved vaccines went through the same testing as other drugs. They’re no more experimental than any other drug which has just come on the market.

 

[warmleyseagull]

I am vaccinated against my will because I had to travel to Europe for work. I am totally against vaccine coercion where people are entitled to be cautious of an experimental drug. Unfortunately I am not in a position where I can walk from my job.

Resign. Stand up for your principles and let someone sensible replace you.

 

[Albion Dan]

Sorry, no, I was presenting you with facts to answer your queries about transmission of the virus in the vaccinated compared to the unvaccinated. The other stuff about mutations seemed to be speculation by you. Was I supposed to take that seriously ?

I didn’t say anything about vaccinated v unvaccinated I challenged vaccinated v antibodies so looks like your facts answered nothing that anyone was talking about .

 

[Albion Dan]

All the approved vaccines went through the same testing as other drugs. They’re no more experimental than any other drug which has just come on the market.

This argument has been done to death. Nobody knows the long term effects of the vaccine because no one has had it long enough and it is completely new technology. All Other vaccines had far longer clinical trials. Those are undeniable facts.

 

[Albion Dan]

You old cynic ! Are you really suggesting that Dan is deliberately making stuff up ?

What have I made up?

What do these stats say to you out of interest.

 

[Saunders]

This argument has been done to death. Nobody knows the long term effects of the vaccine because no one has had it long enough and it is completely new technology. All Other vaccines had far longer clinical trials. Those are undeniable facts.

A lot of approved drugs were approved without the standards of today and probably wouldnt be if they were put through that process today (looking at you Asprin). Many are also not approved that probably should that people had to obtain illegally (looking at you canabis extract) despite being produced in this country and shipped out to others that have. So there is that too. Vaccines arent completely new technology, the way the Pfizer and Moderna was done was completely new but ironically they took the less flack. Which is why even the US FDA wont completely ratify it. They wont approve vaccines outside of the US because money... US healthcare system is a cluster****. All that being said the people who are so concerned about the danger of a vaccine have not compared it to the danger of catching this virus and its effects, they are way worse and we still dont know the long terms of that either. There has been a massive movement against approved vaccines for decades based on fearmongering and false information that even lead to doctors losing their licences for lying. This was the perfect storm for anti vax whether they are approved or not. These are also undeniable "facts".

 

[Cotton Socks]

What have I made up?

What do these stats say to you out of interest.

What it doesn't say is seriousness of illness & hospitalisations etc. When Covid was at a huge peak (I'll be honest & say I can't remember exactly when, because for a while every day seemed to be the same) my friends partner was really, really ill but the ambulance wouldn't take him to hospital as he wasn't ill enough. There's a difference with how ill you need to be now to be admitted, as to how ill you needed to be to be admitted at the peak. I'm pleased to say he's fine now but those stats do not give the picture as to decisions being made under pressure about admissions. He'd probably be admitted now the pressure is off a little bit, those stats are pretty much meaningless without comparatives to severity of illness.

 

[Saunders]

What have I made up?
5
What do these stats say to you out of interest.

You do understand what 80% effective means dont you? That means that 20% still catch it. It also means that if 80% of your population is vaccinated then 20% of 80% is always going to be higher than say 50% of 20% which also by the way includes babys and children. On top of that the vaccinated cases are far less severe than the unvaccinated. That has been debunked many times yet you seem to have missed that. .

 

[Albion Dan]

You do understand what 80% effective means dont you? That means that 20% still catch it. It also means that if 80% of your population is vaccinated then 20% of 80% is always going to be higher than say 50% of 20% which also by the way includes babys and children. On top of that the vaccinated cases are far less severe than the unvaccinated. That has been debunked many times yet you seem to have missed that. .

I am not denying that the vaccine improves the severity of the illness at all. But those numbers are suggesting that vaccinated people are now catching covid at exactly the same rate as unvaccinated which makes a complete mockery of covid passports.

 

[Albion Dan]

What it doesn't say is seriousness of illness & hospitalisations etc. When Covid was at a huge peak (I'll be honest & say I can't remember exactly when, because for a while every day seemed to be the same) my friends partner was really, really ill but the ambulance wouldn't take him to hospital as he wasn't ill enough. There's a difference with how ill you need to be now to be admitted, as to how ill you needed to be to be admitted at the peak. I'm pleased to say he's fine now but those stats do not give the picture as to decisions being made under pressure about admissions. He'd probably be admitted now the pressure is off a little bit, those stats are pretty much meaningless without comparatives to severity of illness.

Like I said I have never disputed that vaccines reduce severity.

 

[El Presidente]

All Other vaccines had far longer clinical trials. Those are undeniable facts.

As is the fact that the Covid vaccines are derived from vaccines for SARS and MERS which use mRNA, forming the basis for the quick development as the groundwork had already been undertaken.

The level of funding for the Covid vaccine and the size of the potential market for it allowed pharmaceutical companies to undertake trials in parallel rather than sequentially, further accelerating the development process.

 

[Mental Lental]

What have I made up?

What do these stats say to you out of interest.

 

[Cotton Socks]

Like I said I have never disputed that vaccines reduce severity.

Apologies if you said that, I've only been skim reading.

 

[Albion Dan]

As is the fact that the Covid vaccines are derived from vaccines for SARS and MERS which use mRNA, forming the basis for the quick development as the groundwork had already been undertaken.

The level of funding for the Covid vaccine and the size of the potential market for it allowed pharmaceutical companies to undertake trials in parallel rather than sequentially, further accelerating the development process.

SARS and MERS mRNA vaccines have been given to people and long term effects studied? I’d be really interested if you can point me in the direction of those studies?