[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[nicko31]

We need constitutional reform to restore democracy for things to really change, Johnson's term demonstrated it is not compatible for dishonest actors

 

[Thunder Bolt]

We need constitutional reform to restore democracy for things to really change, Johnson's term demonstrated it is not compatible for dishonest actors

There are already 778 members of the HOL. More than the EU Parliament representing 27 different countries. All entitled to claim £350 a day just for reporting in.

 

[abc]

Oh come off it.

Thatcher’s government would not have behaved like the government we had during covid.
Labour would not have behaved like the government we had during covid.
I doubt this cabinet would have behaved like Johnson’s cabinet.
No government on any side in the last 200 years would have behaved like the government we had during the pandemic.

To be apologetic for that government, with all we now know? Beggars belief. Give your head a long, hard, wobble.

Woah! Not being apologetic for the current shower in the slightest! Good grief, no! My point (which I’ve obviously made badly) is that politics in this country stinks and I don’t believe that we will ever have a gov that we can trust and is capable of dealing with a major crises until there is a root and branch (not carried out by politicians) of how Westminster operates and above all is overseen. I have lost faith in politicians of all colour but of course BJ et al are the worst example of how to fail the electorate this side of Charles 1st.
Is that better?!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

We need constitutional reform to restore democracy for things to really change, Johnson's term demonstrated it is not compatible for dishonest actors

Actually, it was his wife’s nose he broke, but the principle is the same.

 

[Peteinblack]

Perhaps one of the conclusions from the past few years is that no gov in a democracy can survive a truly seismic event such as Covid as their will always be widely different views as to how to manage such an event and the impacts will be seismic and so long term. However, I also think such events show up the true colours of those in gov at the time and so it has been and is now with the Tories. We will never know how Labour would have come out looking f they had been in government of course, but my suspicion is that the whole of Westminster is now so self serving, talentless and clueless that we simply don't have a political class that is willing or capable of dealing with events of such magnitude.
We will be regurgitating the gist of this type of thread forever unless all of us, the electorate not the politicians, demand real change and significantly higher standards from those that represent us, and I don't see that as a party political or left/right statement but I hope one that we can all agree on.

Ah, the old "They're all as bad as each other" nonsense; false equivalence. During the last 6 years, on social media, everyone I've encountered claiming that "All politicians are corrupt/liars/self-serving crooks" has been a supporter of Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage or/and Donald Trump! The irony would be hilarious if it was not so tragic.

Arrogance and self-serving greed are in the DNA of many Tories because: a) they fundamentally believe that human nature is selfish and self-serving, so they behave accordingly; b) many Tories genuinely believe that they are 'born to rule'; that their wealth and public-school education makes them our natural masters and leaders, and the rest of us should meekly obey them and doff our caps; c) the Tories are mostly funded by big business, and so the institutional and financial links between Tories, big business, and corporate boardrooms, is incestuous and often corrupt - £ billions of tax-payers' money awarded to Tory donors and Ministers' mates during COVID and Tory Ministers routinely joining the boards of companies (on lucrative salaries) when they leave Parliament, Tory Ministers always condemning "greedy" or "inflationary" pay claims by ordinary workers but never criticising the £ multi-million salaries of top CEOs and £ multi-million dividends regularly paid to shareholders, Tories instantly legislating to curb strikes by trade unions but dithering and backtracking when punishing water companies who discharge raw human sewage into our rivers and coastal waters.

I only ever hear Tories trotting out the "They're all as bad as each other" line - if they really thought they were "all as bad as each other" then why not vote Labour, Lib Dem, or Green; it surely would not matter, or make any difference, if "they're all the same"?

 

[Randy McNob]

Perhaps one of the conclusions from the past few years is that no gov in a democracy can survive a truly seismic event such as Covid as their will always be widely different views as to how to manage such an event and the impacts will be seismic and so long term. However, I also think such events show up the true colours of those in gov at the time and so it has been and is now with the Tories. We will never know how Labour would have come out looking f they had been in government of course, but my suspicion is that the whole of Westminster is now so self serving, talentless and clueless that we simply don't have a political class that is willing or capable of dealing with events of such magnitude.
We will be regurgitating the gist of this type of thread forever unless all of us, the electorate not the politicians, demand real change and significantly higher standards from those that represent us, and I don't see that as a party political or left/right statement but I hope one that we can all agree on.

That's not quite correct because the reason this post 2019 government is so awful is the conservatives can only pick ministers from a very small pool of MPs who either actually think Brexit is a good idea or pretend Brexit is a good idea because they only want to further their careers, get into positions of power where ordinarily they wouldn't get anywhere near the steering wheel of power. If the country voted for a Corbyn Labour government (or coalition) he may given ministerial posts to the left wing of the party and, perhaps, discarded the Blairites, however, if faced with a health crisis I would have thought a socialist leaning government would do a better job than the one we were lumbered with, at least their intentions would honest.

Whatever you think of Corbyn would he have had parties every week at No.10 while everyone else was locked down then lie about it, continuously (even to this day) in parliament?

 

[abc]

I’m

Whatever you think of Corbyn would he have had parties every week at No.10 while everyone else was locked down then lie about it, continuously (even to this day) in parliament?

Don't know, but I cant imagine they would be much fun!

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I've always stuck up for the existence of the House of Lords and the honours system, but now I think the HoL should be abolished it's entirety and not replaced and there should be a limited honours system which is run entirely independently from government.

Boris Johnson is a total disgrace

 

[abc]

I've always stuck up for the existence of the House of Lords and the honours system, but now I think the HoL should be abolished it's entirety and not replaced and there should be a limited honours system which is run entirely independently from government.

Boris Johnson is a total disgrace

not only should politicians (and their families of course) be banned from honours, so should so called 'celebrities', actors and TV personalities. Honours should be for 'ordinary' people doing something extra special for their community or country

 

[nicko31]

not only should politicians (and their families of course) be banned from honours, so should so called 'celebrities', actors and TV personalities. Honours should be for 'ordinary' people doing something extra special for their community or country

Son's of KGB spies, anyone with a known drink problem and non-dom media friends should also be banned

 

[vegster]

Oh come off it.

Thatcher’s government would not have behaved like the government we had during covid.
Labour would not have behaved like the government we had during covid.
I doubt this cabinet would have behaved like Johnson’s cabinet.
No government on any side in the last 200 years would have behaved like the government we had during the pandemic.

To be apologetic for that government, with all we now know? Beggars belief. Give your head a long, hard, wobble.

Agreed. I think even May would have handled it better than Johnson, there certainly would not have been the Partygate scandal under her leadership. Fair to say that any Prime Minister from any of the three main party's would have handled covid better.

 

[Audax]

This Lee Stewart fella has forgotten about lag times caused by a) virus incubation times, and b) the spread will have needed a little time to accelerate. Generally speaking, it would take around 2 weeks to see any impact. Strangely enough, the first signs that infections were rising again was the last week of August with a small uptick. Then in September, it took off. That September acceleration will have had its origins in the first half of August.

Also, the Hancock whatsapp message is clearly talking about specific areas. You can't use national aggregate data to disprove what was happening locally in those "intervention areas".

 

[Thunder Bolt]

not only should politicians (and their families of course) be banned from honours, so should so called 'celebrities', actors and TV personalities. Honours should be for 'ordinary' people doing something extra special for their community or country

To be fair, many celebrities have got their honours for charity work, rather than just acting in a good soap opera or film.

 

[nicko31]

This Lee Stewart fella has forgotten about lag times caused by a) virus incubation times, and b) the spread will have needed a little time to accelerate. Generally speaking, it would take around 2 weeks to see any impact. Strangely enough, the first signs that infections were rising again was the last week of August with a small uptick. Then in September, it took off. That September acceleration will have had its origins in the first half of August.

Also, the Hancock whatsapp message is clearly talking about specific areas. You can't use national aggregate data to disprove what was happening locally in those "intervention areas".

Seem to recall the weather in August 2021 was shite, lots of people indoors. Seeded things well for the Autumn.

I also recall I was due to travel to France on August 20, cases here were already soaring here, they shut us out on August 19.

Not Sunak's finest hour

 

[beorhthelm]

(life is too short - it was all covered in the Covid thread at the time).

 

[Randy McNob]

Has a party ever brought a bill to parliament that was illegal, even in the title?

The "Illegal" Migration bill. I think it won't get through, but I think that's the intention.

Tory Plan:
Bring out another bill (that won't work anyway)
Get on News at 10 to spread more poison and lies about immigrants
Make unfounded accusations about Labour and say it would be worse under them
Come back 4-6 months later with another worthless bill to re-ignite the process and debate
Send as many refugees to small towns and old seaside areas to deliberately anger the locals and fan the flames
Keep doing that till the next election in the hope to cling onto power on the subject of immigration

 

[WATFORD zero]

Oh come off it.

Thatcher’s government would not have behaved like the government we had during covid.
Labour would not have behaved like the government we had during covid.
I doubt this cabinet would have behaved like Johnson’s cabinet.
No government on any side in the last 200 years would have behaved like the government we had during the pandemic.

To be apologetic for that government, with all we now know? Beggars belief. Give your head a long, hard, wobble.

To be fair, in my lifetime the only Governments who would have handled it better would have been MacMillan, Douglas-Home, Wilson, Heath, Callaghan, Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron and May.

But apart from them

 

[Motogull]

I've been thinking further on Johnson's plan to get his Dad knighted. The natural reaction is shock at such an unmeritorious abuse of power. Then I wondered if it might be sabotage because he wants to trash the honours system. My conclusion however, is it is merely Johnson having a laugh to see what he can get away with. He really is a contemptible detestable fat prat.

 

[The Clamp]

I've been thinking further on Johnson's plan to get his Dad knighted. The natural reaction is shock at such an unmeritorious abuse of power. Then I wondered if it might be sabotage because he wants to trash the honours system. My conclusion however, is it is merely Johnson having a laugh to see what he can get away with. He really is a contemptible detestable fat prat.

Apparently he has submitted the most amount of honours requests of any departing PM in history.

Which goes to show how many people he owes favours to

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Did anyone actually proof read Sunak’s poster before releasing it, this evening?