[Politics] Tory meltdown finally arrived [was: incoming]...

[beorhthelm]

I am genuinely confused about the tory MPs all blaming kier starmer for the strikes. Can anyone explain please? 12 years in government and we are told these strikes are because of the opposition. I simply can’t compute what is going on.

I get they love to slate “the labour paymasters in the Unions” but this is weird. In fact the whole paymasters line is weird because the Tory paymasters are russia and the very rich who want to get richer at expense of the workers so I have never understood why that is morally better than being funded by people who want to improve things for their workers.

This is all just weird. Why do so many people fall for this crap?

its simple political baiting, he cant/wont condemn strikes because Labour is sponsored by the unions, so they like to highlight that. it makes Labour look in favour of the action that is harming the average worker etc. obviously most dont fall for this but in a minority of wavering center ground it will sway them. and its a good distraction.

 

[nicko31]

Brilliant!

View attachment 149034

An untrustworthy English exceptionalist, he echoes my view. If he stays beyond the next election its bye bye UK...

 

[Baldseagull]

Sounds about right. They are relentlessly shameless.

» Pay boost for banking execs: Downing Street has asked ministers to ease restraints on top City pay to show overseas companies benefits of Brexit'- and boost UK finance sector,

» Confidential letter between the Prime Minister's chief of staff, Steve Barclay, and Chancellor, Rishi Sunak. reveals the Government's attempt to attract more foreign firms to Britain

» The new deregulatory measures to reduce the burden on business' include the plan to boost City pay by 'removing restrictions on director (and non-executive director) remuneration as suggested by the London Stock Exchange to improve London's attractiveness for listings'

» Proposal is likely to prove controversial during cost of living crisis- with tens of millions of people hit by a squeeze on their earnings, including public sector workers on strike this week.

They will probably be thinking cheap labour is also a draw for foreign business. Our problem really for foreign investment though, is a lack of labour, even with 240,000 work visas issued last year.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

its simple political baiting, he cant/wont condemn strikes because Labour is sponsored by the unions, so they like to highlight that. it makes Labour look in favour of the action that is harming the average worker etc. obviously most dont fall for this but in a minority of wavering center ground it will sway them. and its a good distraction.

The RMT do not sponsor Labour.

 

[Baldseagull]

I also hold this opinion. While at the same time applauding anyone standing up to the government. Just a shame it’s the rail industry.

I read that the grumpy people who stroll up and down the train checking tickets are on £33k a year.
The equivalent job might be checking tickets at the Odeon or being a traffic warden.

If there’s any trouble they can just walk away, lock themselves in the cabin and wait for the police at the next station.

33k.

But then I think good on them for fighting back. But then I think the rail service in this country is shite.

I’m torn!

That person, also known as a guard, enables the train to safely move away from unmanned platforms. This is shift work as well, and includes some weekends, and I believe that £33k includes the average overtime worked, the base is £29k. I would not give up some weekends and evenings, risk being stuck somewhere if there is a suicide, broken down train and deal with the irate fare payers and fare dodgers for that.

 

[nicko31]

That person, also known as a guard, enables the train to safely move away from unmanned platforms. This is shift work as well, and includes some weekends, and I believe that £33k includes the average overtime worked, the base is £29k. I would not give up some weekends and evenings, risk being stuck somewhere if there is a suicide, broken down train and deal with the irate fare payers and fare dodgers for that.

33k is hardly a fortune for a highly responsible job and no doubt you have to deal with a fair proportion of idiots

 

[Baldseagull]

I struggle to take sides in this dispute and I don't want to blame the government or Labour either.

The fact is, this industry is a f**king shambles from top to bottom. The people running the train companies don't know their arses from their elbows and the people doing the work are already paid way in excess of what their skills would command elsewhere. The facts seem to be that the unions want 11%, the owners want to pay 2-3% (with attached conditions) and inflation is running at 11%. With literally every other industry you'd think "well there's a LOT of room for negotiation before resorting to a strike" but not with this lot. The union calls a strike whilst alleging that the owners haven't even contacted them.

I tell you what, it makes me think we can do without the pious "don't abuse our staff" posters we see, which largely happens because their service is absolute dog shit. The bottom line is quite clearly that nobody in the industry really gives a shit about the people paying through the nose for their appalling service. The customer always comes last in railway world.

The Union official I saw speak on C4 News last night said the median pay of the people involved in this strike action is £31k, the Tory that wanted to demonise the strikers kept saying the median wage for the Rail Industry is £42k.
I am saddened to see so many people thinking a salary around £30k is too much for a job, just because most could do it with some training.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Any pay rise of 2% or 3% - for workers in any sector of business - will just be passed straight into the pockets of utility companies and supermarkets

 

[nicko31]

The Union official I saw speak on C4 News last night said the median pay of the people involved in this strike action is £31k, the Tory that wanted to demonise the strikers kept saying the median wage for the Rail Industry is £42k.
I am saddened to see so many people thinking a salary around £30k is too much for a job, just because most could do it with some training.

Tories going full weaponisation on this one. If can divide public opinion and try and create another wedge issue they can harvest votes. With nothing but empty plans and rhetoric they've got little else

 

[nicko31]

Any pay rise of 2% or 3% - for workers in any sector of business - will just be passed straight into the pockets of utility companies and supermarkets

And utility companies pass the money to the primary producers, that's who's making the real money.

 

[rippleman]

Criminal barristers have voted to strike in an escalating dispute with the government over funding for trials.

The vote by defence barristers is likely to cause chaos in the criminal courts in England and Wales.

Eight out of 10 barristers voted for the walkouts amid concerns the government will not improve a proposed increase in criminal Legal Aid.

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Average salary for a barrister is a smidge under 90K (May 2022). Not convinced that they represent the most needy sector of society. I'm not aware that barrister's jobs are under threat. They aren't low paid. Yes, they will be suffering the same price increases as the rest of us but are in a far more secure financial position than many.

Ah! But they live in expensive properties and have large mortgages I hear you cry. Yes. But they can downsize. Not so easy to downsize from a council flat, or a room in a HMO, or living rough.

Striking for more wedge when the average sector salary is nearly £90K is greedy opportunism.

https://www.thelawyerportal.com/car...yer-salary-barrister-salary-solicitor-salary/

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Average salary for a barrister is a smidge under 90K (May 2022). Not convinced that they represent the most needy sector of society. I'm not aware that barrister's jobs are under threat. They aren't low paid. Yes, they will be suffering the same price increases as the rest of us but are in a far more secure financial position than many.

Ah! But they live in expensive properties and have large mortgages I hear you cry. Yes. But they can downsize. Not so easy to downsize from a council flat, or a room in a HMO, or living rough.

Striking for more wedge when the average sector salary is nearly £90K is greedy opportunism.

https://www.thelawyerportal.com/car...yer-salary-barrister-salary-solicitor-salary/

It's an absolute godsend for the government, who will continuously conflate the same lefty lawyers as the ones who prevent the government routinely break the law with the ones who are looking to take industrial action

 

[beorhthelm]

Tories going full weaponisation on this one. If can divide public opinion and try and create another wedge issue they can harvest votes. With nothing but empty plans and rhetoric they've got little else

does it not occur that the division is already there, and that politics is a product of difference of opinion and views?

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

does it not occur that the division is already there, and that politics is a product of difference of opinion and views?

So is it your position that the Conservative government doesn't seek to stoke division on cultural issues for it's own electoral gain?

 

[pb21]

does it not occur that the division is already there, and that politics is a product of difference of opinion and views?

Absolutely, but is exploting and amplyfing that division helpful? Also, whilst there is division, it's not discrete or absolute, so, IMO, playing divide and conquer will end badly for everyone.

 

[Baldseagull]

I am genuinely confused about the tory MPs all blaming kier starmer for the strikes. Can anyone explain please? 12 years in government and we are told these strikes are because of the opposition. I simply can’t compute what is going on.

I get they love to slate “the labour paymasters in the Unions” but this is weird. In fact the whole paymasters line is weird because the Tory paymasters are russia and the very rich who want to get richer at expense of the workers so I have never understood why that is morally better than being funded by people who want to improve things for their workers.

This is all just weird. Why do so many people fall for this crap?

At the last election, the Tories told us it was Corbyn that was going to take us back to the 70's. The Tories won and still want to blame Labour.

 

[nicko31]

does it not occur that the division is already there, and that politics is a product of difference of opinion and views?

There is always difference in opinion. But the current administration engages in a never ending stoking of division.

Sadly, they see what has happened in the US and they and their collaborators in sections of the media seek to bring it here,

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

33k is hardly a fortune for a highly responsible job and no doubt you have to deal with a fair proportion of idiots

Oh come on, highly responsible job? Dealing with idiots?

They're not even needed.....................................apparently.












Hence why I won't allow my daughters to travel late on trains alone.

 

[beorhthelm]

So is it your position that the Conservative government doesn't seek to stoke division on cultural issues for it's own electoral gain?

no, its my position that all political parties stoke division for their electoral gain. im observing that people dont all have the same point of view on strikes, before government or MPs stick their tuppence in.

notice how little debate there is about the actual issues, or even verify if the issues are correct. i dont know what they're striking over anymore as there's been half dozen reasons and counter arguments the past week. one thing i do know as a matter of record is the RMT balloted for strike action before going into any negotiation, and Lynch is quoted saying "Our union will now embark on a sustained campaign of industrial action which will shut down the railway system."

 

[Simster]

The Union official I saw speak on C4 News last night said the median pay of the people involved in this strike action is £31k, the Tory that wanted to demonise the strikers kept saying the median wage for the Rail Industry is £42k.
I am saddened to see so many people thinking a salary around £30k is too much for a job, just because most could do it with some training.

Mate, I'm not saying that. I'm glad those people are earning their £30k or whatever, because it would be a lot less if it wasn't unionised. But then there is nothing in the passage that you quoted that suggests otherwise.

What I do care about is the intransigence on both sides that means the country grinds to halt at a time when fuel is prohibitive to some who rely on the trains, and it's not as if either side have seemingly really tried to compromise. Nobody is saying "striking is a last solution but let's try and come to a solution because of our customers". Neither side gives a shit about the customers - that much was already apparent before we had to suffer this.