The ultimate REFERENDUM thread

[pb21]

Of course I am.

We know you have no concern for the British working class, you have stated that numerous times before. Like Lincoln Imp, and others, you are quite comfortable that they should continue to struggle for work in an EU wide labour market, and all the other implications on public services that policy brings.

With the likes of HSBC highlighting rising labour costs as a consequence of Brexit, leading Tories and other capitalists CEOs (like BMW) threatening British workers jobs with the prospect of Brexit, I am pretty sure it's in the British workers interests to vote out.

A vote for in merely reinforces the status quo, and this has been devastating for British workers generally, but particularly the working class.

Tories and their capitalist shills will argue nothing needs to change, that is evidently conservative by nature and consistent with their party policy.

Cameron is supporting in...........just like you.

Arguably the free movement of labour across the EU might not be in the working classes interest, but I'm sure you realise that there is more to the EU than free movement of labour, that would be of benefit to the working classes?! It's not as simple as you think!

 

[cunning fergus]

Arguably the free movement of labour across the EU might not be in the working classes interest, but I'm sure you realise that there is more to the EU than free movement of labour, that would be of benefit to the working classes?! It's not as simple as you think!

There is not arguably about it, the U.K. is issuing 600k NI numbers a year, that is the extent of new workers (and claimants).

The narrative of this debate will always coalesce around whether people are better off, and I have no doubt that those rich enough will continue to benefit from the UKs membership of the EU.

HSBC using the likely rising cost of labour if we came out as a reason to stay in is a scandal.

It is true though, even the uber capitalist leading the in campaign agrees........

http://www.cityam.com/235892/eu-ref...-with-andrew-tyries-treasury-select-committee

If these people are the kind of people arguing that we should stay in then I know if you genuinely support the British working class speaking we should be out.

Frankly f*ck HSBC........

 

[pb21]

There is not arguably about it, the U.K. is issuing 600k NI numbers a year, that is the extent of new workers (and claimants).

The narrative of this debate will always coalesce around whether people are better off, and I have no doubt that those rich enough will continue to benefit from the UKs membership of the EU.

HSBC using the likely rising cost of labour if we came out as a reason to stay in is a scandal.

It is true though, even the uber capitalist leading the in campaign agrees........

http://www.cityam.com/235892/eu-ref...-with-andrew-tyries-treasury-select-committee

If these people are the kind of people arguing that we should stay in then I know if you genuinely support the British working class speaking we should be out.

Frankly f*ck HSBC........

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I do think that the EU brings benefits for the working classes as well as all classes. There is more to the story than what you have posted, there are pros to staying in the EU from a working class perspective as well as negatives.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Of course I am.

We know you have no concern for the British working class, you have stated that numerous times before. Like Lincoln Imp, and others, you are quite comfortable that they should continue to struggle for work in an EU wide labour market, and all the other implications on public services that policy brings.

With the likes of HSBC highlighting rising labour costs as a consequence of Brexit, leading Tories and other capitalists CEOs (like BMW) threatening British workers jobs with the prospect of Brexit, I am pretty sure it's in the British workers interests to vote out.

A vote for in merely reinforces the status quo, and this has been devastating for British workers generally, but particularly the working class.

Tories and their capitalist shills will argue nothing needs to change, that is evidently conservative by nature and consistent with their party policy.

Cameron is supporting in...........just like you.

Go on, call me Maggie than we can be done :rollseyes:

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I do think that the EU brings benefits for the working classes as well as all classes. There is more to the story than what you have posted, there are pros to staying in the EU from a working class perspective as well as negatives.

Of course there are.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Go on, call me Maggie than we can be done :rollseyes:

I'm in the dock alongside you. The poster has created a technique that involves completely misreading what someone has said and then attacking them on the basis of his misinterpretation. Apparently I'm a wet dreams Tory or something.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Of course I am.

We know you have no concern for the British working class, you have stated that numerous times before..

Yes, of course I have. I state this on a daily basis. FFS, you really are an idiot. And a boring one at that.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'm in the dock alongside you. The poster has created a technique that involves completely misreading what someone has said and then attacking them on the basis of his misinterpretation. Apparently I'm a wet dreams Tory or something.

ha ha. From one wet dream Tory to another.

 

[5ways]

I don’t know who you are speaking on behalf but its not me. I don’t want any "free" movement of people into the UK let alone "some".I want a controlled immigration policy for the UK with regards to working and residency.Perhaps you can list the other countries outside the EUsigning up for purely a FTA who have had to compromise with regard to free movement.


Its equally logical to think we don’t have to have the same agreements as Norway or Switzerland.
Its equally logical to say we could have trade agreements closer to other countries outside the EU which do NOT have to have free movement.A bespoke British relationship is entirely possible.

Your idea that we must sign up to free movement whatever happens seems to be based purely on the fact we are nearby. That is totally illogical.

If you're, say, Poland then it makes a lot of sense to push for free movement as part of any FTA. Most, if not all, of their fellow members will agree on this point. It is a core demand. It is based upon that fact that many millions of people have started lives here, have begun paying taxes and so on. For the source country this has brought wealth and prosperity. Equally Britons enjoy the right to work and live in Europe and millions have taken up this ease of access in Spain, France and so on.

 

[5ways]

True the Eurozone crisis will continue to effect us as long as it continues (foreseeable future). Which is why having the freedom to diversify our trade opportunities away from a stagnating under performing Eurozone is important. The only solutions to this crisis is ever closer fiscal union or disintegration I would rather we were at arms length from either outcome.

It's in all our interests for the democratic wishes of the peoples of all European nation states to be heard and represented not suppressed and ignored for some political unachievable ever closer union.

Yes the migration crisis is not going away, the Calais scare stories are an irrelevant sideshow to what is taking place in Europe.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35706238

http://www.wsj.com/articles/new-migrant-crisis-flares-in-greece-1456956214

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...-violence-Calais-Jungle-Greece-Merkel-Austria

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...pean-leaders-demand-urgent-support-for-greece

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35696152

I take the point that it would be nice to be able to do bilateral deals, but with the EU we have someone to do the heavy lifting (54 so far, TTIP on the way) and we use the heft of the EU, nearly a quarter of global GDP, to drive terms.

Yes the refugee response is disastrous.

 

[heathgate]

If you're, say, Poland then it makes a lot of sense to push for free movement as part of any FTA. Most, if not all, of their fellow members will agree on this point. It is a core demand. It is based upon that fact that many millions of people have started lives here, have begun paying taxes and so on. For the source country this has brought wealth and prosperity. Equally Britons enjoy the right to work and live in Europe and millions have taken up this ease of access in Spain, France and so on.

Interestingly, a number of Polish nationals in this country have , when asked, expressed the opinion that they would vote LEAVE......

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I take the point that it would be nice to be able to do bilateral deals, but with the EU we have someone to do the heavy lifting (54 so far, TTIP on the way) and we use the heft of the EU, nearly a quarter of global GDP, to drive terms.

Yes the refugee response is disastrous.

Deja vu

http://www.civitas.org.uk/email-resources/myth-and-paradox.pdf

 

[Doc Lynam]

The cold hard face of capitalism and the EU; Mr Rose says exiting the EU could raise low wages, which isn't wanted. Second clip on page.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35712184

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Your welcome. I have never understood how a nationalist party can be anti UK but pro EU. If you want true self determination opposition to both must be the only principled position to take. Anyone would think the SNP and many of it's supporters are just anti English but use the word 'Westminster' to hide their prejudice.

I'm not saying I want Scotland to vote itself out of the UK, but there is a huge difference of degree between the British union and the European union, making it possible for a Scotsman to want independence from the UK but membership of the EU. The former involves joint armed forces and a single head of state for example, together with a raft of rules, laws and regulations that goes far beyond anything applicable to the EU (or the USA for that matter). Centuries of close union haven't diminished Scotland's sense of national identity though, just as EU membership hasn't diminished my pleasure at being English.

The only element (s) missing in this Scotland debate is the fact that the EU told them they would not automatically be allowed to join but would instead have to wait outside with all of the other applicants...this they no like.

Also. I don't know if anyone in porridgeland has noticed but oil, the saviour of Scotland's economy forever according to the SNP, is currently worth about as much as milk. They would have a hard time paying all those tuition fees and free prescriptions at the moment that's for sure.

Call sturgeons bluff. She can't hold a referendum without parliament agreeing to another one...which they won't..in any event.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

The cold hard face of capitalism and the EU; Mr Rose says exiting the EU could raise low wages, which isn't wanted. Second clip on page.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35712184

I think you're taking this out of context. Obviously ANY increase in pay is good in isolation, but isolation doesn't always exist. For example, if there is a shortage of maths teachers their pay should rise and we would have to pay the bill (which most of us would be happy to). It there is a shortage of skilled car assembly workers in the north east then their pay will rise and factory costs would increase and Nissan Renault might decide to make their next model in France. Similarly, if I, as a self-employed person, increased my pay I would quite quickly stop earning anything at all.

(I am not defending anything, promoting rabid exploitation, saying that workers are paid too much and that M&S bosses are paid too little; I'm just making a passing reference to reality, which was probably what Mr Rose was doing.)

 

[Deleted member 22389]

So say we Remain, in another five years we will still be talking about the same things, not enough homes, government cuts to services, and even more people coming to this country, we are just going around in cirles, and as every year passes things get slowly worse. This country has gone stale, Leave the EU I feel like it would be a new start.

 

[vegster]

The cold hard face of capitalism and the EU; Mr Rose says exiting the EU could raise low wages, which isn't wanted. Second clip on page.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35712184

I keep getting fed up with all the talk that the UK is " The worlds 5th largest economy "... it really does not seem like it to me when I drive to work on the congested,pot-holed roads to earn my minimum wage each day . I suppose its worth remembering that and the slow collapse of the NHS and trying to figure out where is all the money and that in/out really isn't going to change the lives of most of us anyway.

It's all about rich people having a difference of opinion as to if they make more money in or out.

 

[vegster]

So say we Remain, in another five years we will still be talking about the same things, not enough homes, government cuts to services, and even more people coming to this country, we are just going around in cirles, and as every year passes things get slowly worse. This country has gone stale, Leave the EU I feel like it would be a new start.

It's going to get worse whatever happens.

 

[pb21]

Of course there are.

It's like saying Iain Duncan Smith is actually a socialist as he wants to leave the EU

 

[Deleted member 22389]

It's going to get worse whatever happens.

Leave feels the right thing for me. If you say it is going to get worse whatever happens, then we need to drop some of things that are contributing to it, the EU and the silly rules being one of them.