[Politics] The General Election Thread

[Peteinblack]

Wake up The NHS is NOT for sale.

You lot will believe anything Corbyn and Co says.

The man wears the 'mask of deceit'.

Just as Tories like you will believe anything which that inveterate liar Boris Johnson says!

 

[CHAPPERS]

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...baec23e4b066da552d92d9?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics

Tory ministers have come under fire for spending government cash on Facebook ads targeted at voters in election swing seats.

HuffPost UK has learned that ministers authorised more than 20 adverts, paid for with taxpayers’ cash, to go live on Tuesday, the same day Boris Johnson got MPs to back a snap general election.

Published on a page for a government campaign called ‘My Town’, the ads trumpet £25m of investment for each individual area.

The adverts, designed by the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (MHCLG), refer to the £3.6bn Towns Fund announced by the prime minister in September.

But they also say: “We want local people to determine how this money is spent.”

Labour MP Ian Lucas called the promotion an “outrageous” misuse of public cash.

He has written to Cabinet Office minister Michael Gove demanding to know how data was gathered for the campaign and accusing ministers of misusing taxpayers’ cash.

The messages all appear to be specifically targeted at people living in mostly-Brexit-voting towns where the sitting MP has a majority below 5,000 votes, such as Milton Keynes, Morley, Northampton and Workington.

 

[beorhthelm]

And that leads us on to the main point that I took from [MENTION=23795]Hugo Rune[/MENTION] 's post which is that this would be a huge change from the status quo. Currently health care is free at the point of delviery and drug costs are negotiated in bulk. Both these things would cease. I think that would be a bad thing.

And here's another thing. The response was one of your typical ones, contradicting someone's post without actually really saying whether you are in favour of it. In fact, in all the years I've been on NSC I've never once seen you say explicitly what you are in favour of (or against) as I have in the paragraph above. So, in order to understand why you would pick on what you (but not I) perceive as a small contradiction, rather than the potential life-threatening changes for poor people in this country that getting rid of the NHS would cause, can you tell us what you are in favour of. Who will you be voting for and why?

i took from Hugo Rune's post that this thing is a fact, its happening, because its popular political narrative that this is the intended destination for some Tories. its based upon heresay and supposition (something was discussed in a meeting, therefore the policy must have changed). as you say it would require massive changes to the the status quo, overhauling a lot beyond scope of trade deals, that i dont see any political move towards. i was objecting to the argument being put forward (repeatedly) with some reason why its illogical and most likely not true. since you want to be personal, i'm in favour of our current healthcare system, with changes if they that improve clinical outcome and efficiency while remaining free at point of use. obviously trippling our pharma bill would be a harebrained policy.

to add, it was only a few years ago that TTIP was being discussed between US and EU, and strong opposition to that to protect NHS. it wasnt made clear then why NHS would be especially impacted by trade negotiations, and with Brexit its not clear either.

 

[beorhthelm]

Wrong. Do car insurers go to the cheapest garage? You get a cheap price by buying in huge bulk like the NHS, insurance companies don’t have the scale to do this.

do they think they go to most expensive?

 

[Doonhamer7]

For those living in Horsham there is nearly no point in voting with Quin having a majority bigger than all the parties put together, so unless a mega skeleton appears out of his closet he’s safe. But does he really represent Horsham or does he represent himself as a career politician (we were his 4th or 5th seat he went for) who voted whatever May or Johnson wanted from him.

I read so where that only 10% of the electorate have a meaningful vote, because once safe seats are removed and the ‘I always vote for party x’ are discounted the amount that need to be targeted are very small. We do need some form of PR.

 

[Sorrel]

For those living in Horsham there is nearly no point in voting with Quin having a majority bigger than all the parties put together, so unless a mega skeleton appears out of his closet he’s safe. But does he really represent Horsham or does he represent himself as a career politician (we were his 4th or 5th seat he went for) who voted whatever May or Johnson wanted from him.

I read so where that only 10% of the electorate have a meaningful vote, because once safe seats are removed and the ‘I always vote for party x’ are discounted the amount that need to be targeted are very small. We do need some form of PR.

I'm in the Horsham constituency and have occasionally written to our MP and had decent and considered replies from him. I will certainly look at the candidates in the area, but one of them would need to be fairly impressive to make me change my vote.

I'd like to see two elected houses, with a true proportion voting system for one (not the awful alternative vote) and a first past the post system for the other. But how many parties are actually offering actual reform of the House of Lords in this election, with clear plans rather than vague statements?

 

[zefarelly]

For those living in Horsham there is nearly no point in voting with Quin having a majority bigger than all the parties put together, so unless a mega skeleton appears out of his closet he’s safe. But does he really represent Horsham or does he represent himself as a career politician (we were his 4th or 5th seat he went for) who voted whatever May or Johnson wanted from him.

I read so where that only 10% of the electorate have a meaningful vote, because once safe seats are removed and the ‘I always vote for party x’ are discounted the amount that need to be targeted are very small. We do need some form of PR.

I believe the situation is similar Anywhere west of Brighton/Hove on the south coast as well . Although Labour took a chunk from Tims majority last time out, in Adur he still cruised home with 48% of the vote, on a 70% turnout, so only 1/3 of the towns voters. . . Which is just wrong.

Compulsory voting and Proportional representation is the way forward. An ex work colleague who is now in his mid 70's recently said to me a revolution is needed, and likely coming. He could well be right.

 

[Peteinblack]

They certainly do. They support terrorists and have an Idol in Lenin, probably Mao and support that terrible scurge, socialism. That harbinger of death, persecution and poverty. Corbyn voted continuously against the European Union. Now what is he saying? Liars, miscreants and definitley residivist communists.

With this degree of anti-Corbyn hysteria and wild accusations, you really ought to work for the Daily Mail or The Sun.I can just imagine you sitting there foaming-at-the-mouth while typing one-handed - albeit semi-illiterately. I always find it a wonderful irony that so many Right-wing patriots can't actually speak or write their own language properly.

We have plenty of poverty in Britain today, thanks to: austerity (but only for ordinary people, not for the rich; they've been showered with tax cuts on their obscene salaries), zero-hours contracts, and companies which pay £ millions to their bosses and shareholders, but the minimum wage to their workers - who actually produce the wealth through their work.

We have deaths caused by homelessness (hypothermia in the winter) - incidentally, many of the homeless are ex-army, yet the Tories don't care about them once they've served their political purpose.

And we have persecution of pro-EU Labour, Liberal Democrat and moderate Tory MPs, who are subjected to death threats, rape threats, online abuse, verbal abuse and spat at in the street. Many female MPs - particularly decent Tories - are standing-down in this election because of the abuse they have suffered from Right-wing nutters and thugs.Not forgetting Jo Cox, of course, murdered by a 'patriotic' Far Right thug. Have any Right-wing Tories or pro-Brexit MPs been persecuted in these ways?

As to comparing a Corbyn-Britain to Mao's China (or, I guess, the former Soviet Union), you actually ought to read about these so-called Communist countries - they were awful societies in which the top 1% ruthlessly exploited the workers and peasants, took all the wealth for themselves claiming that they were providing the necessary leadership and wisdom on behalf of the masses. The elite thus lived in luxury in their Moscow apartments while the workers and peasants lived in slums or rural hovels,and shivered and starved. The elite also sent their kids to the best universities and ensured they had the best jobs in the elite after graduation, thus perpetuating the inequality.

But if the workers tried to complain about their misery and poverty, and this unfairness, they were denounced as traitors, and told that their hardships were necessary to make the Motherland great - and that any attempt at change would make things 10 x worse.

Sounds like Tory Britain to me!

As to Corbyn's dalliance with IRA terrorists:

 

[Guinness Boy]

i took from Hugo Rune's post that this thing is a fact, its happening, because its popular political narrative that this is the intended destination for some Tories. its based upon heresay and supposition (something was discussed in a meeting, therefore the policy must have changed). as you say it would require massive changes to the the status quo, overhauling a lot beyond scope of trade deals, that i dont see any political move towards. i was objecting to the argument being put forward (repeatedly) with some reason why its illogical and most likely not true. since you want to be personal, i'm in favour of our current healthcare system, with changes if they that improve clinical outcome and efficiency while remaining free at point of use. obviously trippling our pharma bill would be a harebrained policy.

to add, it was only a few years ago that TTIP was being discussed between US and EU, and strong opposition to that to protect NHS. it wasnt made clear then why NHS would be especially impacted by trade negotiations, and with Brexit its not clear either.

So which party do you think is the best to deliver exactly that?

 

[beorhthelm]

So which party do you think is the best to deliver exactly that?

the NHS party? i doubt any are best suited currently, because too much partisan politics comes into it.

 

[BLOCK F]

It wasn't posted as an insult, more a point of fact, in my opinion at least?

Oh well.

 

[Two Professors]

With this degree of anti-Corbyn hysteria and wild accusations, you really ought to work for the Daily Mail or The Sun.I can just imagine you sitting there foaming-at-the-mouth while typing one-handed - albeit semi-illiterately. I always find it a wonderful irony that so many Right-wing patriots can't actually speak or write their own language properly.

We have plenty of poverty in Britain today, thanks to: austerity (but only for ordinary people, not for the rich; they've been showered with tax cuts on their obscene salaries), zero-hours contracts, and companies which pay £ millions to their bosses and shareholders, but the minimum wage to their workers - who actually produce the wealth through their work.

We have deaths caused by homelessness (hypothermia in the winter) - incidentally, many of the homeless are ex-army, yet the Tories don't care about them once they've served their political purpose.

And we have persecution of pro-EU Labour, Liberal Democrat and moderate Tory MPs, who are subjected to death threats, rape threats, online abuse, verbal abuse and spat at in the street. Many female MPs - particularly decent Tories - are standing-down in this election because of the abuse they have suffered from Right-wing nutters and thugs.Not forgetting Jo Cox, of course, murdered by a 'patriotic' Far Right thug. Have any Right-wing Tories or pro-Brexit MPs been persecuted in these ways?

As to comparing a Corbyn-Britain to Mao's China (or, I guess, the former Soviet Union), you actually ought to read about these so-called Communist countries - they were awful societies in which the top 1% ruthlessly exploited the workers and peasants, took all the wealth for themselves claiming that they were providing the necessary leadership and wisdom on behalf of the masses. The elite thus lived in luxury in their Moscow apartments while the workers and peasants lived in slums or rural hovels,and shivered and starved. The elite also sent their kids to the best universities and ensured they had the best jobs in the elite after graduation, thus perpetuating the inequality.

But if the workers tried to complain about their misery and poverty, and this unfairness, they were denounced as traitors, and told that their hardships were necessary to make the Motherland great - and that any attempt at change would make things 10 x worse.

Sounds like Tory Britain to me!

As to Corbyn's dalliance with IRA terrorists:
View attachment 116791
View attachment 116792

I dare say he had already been frisked for weapons before the photo op.According to your mob ,he was just a politician,not a terrorist at all,at all.

 

[Guinness Boy]

the NHS party? i doubt any are best suited currently, because too much partisan politics comes into it.

You should be a politician with answers like that.

 

[zefarelly]

Oh well.

As a self confessed political ignoramus, I considered it to Be a stupid ill informed opinion, and factually incorrect. Oh well indeed.

Very Good song though.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

None of what you have said bears any relevance to post-Brexit, at which point we will be in an incredibly weak negotiating position, and there have been noises from the US that the NHS has to be on the table for a trade deal to be done.

So again, what makes you think it won’t be for sale?

When the President says its not on the table - a man who speaks his mind, and who say if he wanted a NHS / US deal - says it isn't.

Also the track record, as I say, for 2/3rds of it's existence, much of it outside the EU even Thatcher didn't 'sell it off', the hyperbole just does't match what has actually happened on the ground, the facts speak differently to what Corbyn says.

It is unfortunately just a Corbyn scare story due to his sitting on the fence on Brexit - how many elections have gone past with Labour saying '24 hours to save the NHS' , I just don't believe them.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Farage is currently kicking Boris repeatedly in the bollocks on the radio. Ho ho ho!

Edit: he says the Brexit party will field a candidate in every constituence in England Scotland and Wales.

And yet he is offering Boris and labour Brexit candidates an electoral alliance?

A 'Leave Alliance'....that puts 'country before party'....but 'if they chose not to we will stand up on our own'...

What the actual **** does he expect any remain or leave labour or tory candidate to do exactly?

Christ, what a charlatan.

Edit Edit: he expects tories to stand aside in constituencues where tories have never and will never win. And labour vice versa. Yeah.....right. Plum.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

When the President says .....

Ah, see you've made a mistake there

 

[Two Professors]

All this old twaddle about selling off the NHS must be desperation setting in already-best you have?If the Government wasn't in talks with American pharma suppliers you would be screeching about negligence.I'm sure they are just ensuring continuity of supply for when the EU blockades start,and they refuse to sell us anything.Insulin and isotopes being top of the earlier whine lists,IIRC.

 

[beorhthelm]

Farage is currently kicking Boris repeatedly in the bollocks on the radio. Ho ho ho!

Farage's line of argument against the Johnson and withdrawal deal is increasingly sounding like argument to stay in the EU. no one is sold on the no deal approach (which even he wasnt advocating at the referendum) so what is the aim anymore? seems its only a vehicle to serve his ego now.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

They know the majority in this country love the NHS and to just come out honestly and say their long term goal is to dismantle it would destroy them in the polls. So slow, steady and stealth is the aim. Slow erosion rather than revolution. What you should be asking is whether they are supporting, growing and adequately financing our NHS? Do you think they do have a long term goal of a state owned and run national health care system? How is that working for our railways, power networks, post office, utilities now run by other country's state owned entities?

I just don't agree with that rhetoric, there is no evidence that in the last 9 years privatisation has gone through the roof, in fact it has stayed at the same pace as under Labour from 1997-2010 , some private elements are needed, e.g. MacMillan nurses and drug companies which actually got the price of Orkamni down to a level that was affordable for the NHS.

The question was about the NHS, not about the railways which FWIW can work both under a nationalised system where there is no competition e.g. LNER or a competitive market where the line to Birmingham has two competing contracts and has actually increased standards.