[Football] SOUTHGATE: I'm finally heating up a MASSIVE humble pie.

[Kosh]

I haven't changed my mind on him at all. He fell into a job because his face/personality fitted, not because of his football management acumen.

We're doing well but still yet to meet quality opposition (Germany certainly weren't that).

He has a dearth of quality players which are carrying him through.

He's also surrounded himself with quality coaches for which I would praise him.

We are good enough to win the tournament but if we do, I'm not going to suddenly jump on the Southgate bandwagon. He was a poor manager before his appointment and I'll bet he will be a poor manager again when or if he returns to club management, unless of course he can surround himself with better coaches and have access to world class players!

I agree with the above, Southgate is very lucky this current crop of talented attacking players are at his disposal. He's no tactical genius, but has good coaches around him, and yes I think the players like him which is key at this level. However... Italy look formidable to me and have a manager who I suspect can tactically out think Southgate... I hope not obviously, but if we meet Italy in the final we might end up coming up short.

That said if it's Spain, I reckon we can win. But before getting too carried away lol, the Danes have something truly special to play for (in their minds) and the Semi is going to be very tough. Again the selection will be key and he has that wealth of talent to pick from, get that right and we can win. Last night was great, but boy the Ukraine were terrible defensively, lower end championship (on a bad day) standard.

We're far from home yet, but I say again I bloody hope we win just to help us all move on from the distant and grainy legend of '66.... something that Millennial's probably see as akin to the glory of the Victorian empire.

 

[Beach Hut]

Would Fat Sam have got us this far, bearing in mind Rooney would probably still be playing...........

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I thought I'd look up Southgate's managerial career. For some reason I had it in my head he'd managed Forest as well as Boro but not so according to wikipedia. He was a young league manager, appointed before he'd got his badges. He took Boro down into the Championship and was sacked when he'd got them one point off the top. His successor (Gordon **** Strachan) failed to get Boro promoted. After the Boro sacking he spent 4 years out of football (doing what, Wiki doesn't say). Then he was back at England, first running the U21s fror 3 years before taking over the full national side. That was five years ago. So he may have been a surprise appointment but he has basically learned his trade while in the job over the last 5 years.

How long did it take Potter to become a top manager (some would argue he isn't one)? What about Sir Alex Ferguson? Sacked by St Mirren. Six years in management before his successes at Aberdeen. So I think it would be premature to dismiss Southgate as shit, lucky, clueless and a rubbish manager, yet. Some people can learn and improve. If Southgate needs to supplement his emotional intelligence skills by employing clever coaches, so be it.

Is it too early to say whether Southgate is a good England manager or not? It's too early to say.

 

[Motogull]

Just to provide some perspective: So far, we have beaten teams below us in the world rankings, which is what happened at the World Cup, when we also lost to all the teams we played who were above us.

The good news is that none of the three teams above us in today's rankings (Belgium, France, Brazil) are in the last four of this competition.

Mind you, I don't think we should be getting carried away today after beating a tired Ukraine side who hadn't a clue about defending ...

And all bar one game at home.

If we don't win it this year, we never will, well not in my lifetime anyway.

 

[Originunknown]

Not for me yet. He does appear to be a good man manager and credit to the coaching team he has assembled, especially Steve Holland.

It's final or bust for Southgate and the 96 penalty redemption will be well earned if we do win it.

Still not convinced England have faced a serious test in the tournament yet but we haven't looked at all convincing until last night.

 

[Poojah]

It’s easy to forget how we came to have Gareth Southgate at the helm, and just what a mess the England set-up was then. Having recently been dumped out of the 2016 Euros by Iceland (ffs!), and having had a winless group stage exit at the 2014 World Cup, Roy Hodgson had handed over the reigns to one Big Sam Allardyce, a man who is to football management what beans on toast is to nouvelle cuisine.

We then struggled to a 1-0 injury time victory over Slovakia in his one game in charge, before he was forced out of the job by the Telegraph’s corruption expose. Honestly, what a mess, what an utter fúcking laughing stock we were back then, though it’s only 5 years ago.

I can’t tell you who I wanted in the job back then, because it was evident that no one with any credibility whatsoever wanted it. I will say however, I most certainly didn’t want Gareth Southgate - a man whose only achievement in management was successfully transitioning Middlesbrough from an established Premier League outfit into an established Championship side. His one tournament at the helm of the England under-21 team had ended with us bottom of the group. He had all the hallmarks of someone who would make an absolutely disastrous England manager.

Realistically, he was the only person who was willing to entertain the job, even on a caretaker basis. After he did alright (and not much more than that) in his first four or five games in charge, he got the job full time. My feelings at the time were very much that, with no other credible candidate on the horizon, Southgate would simply be less embarrassing to sack when things inevitably went south in a few games time. I’m certain that was the crux of the FA’s thinking at the time.

The rest, now, is history. My opinion of Southgate rapidly went up in the run up to the 2018 World Cup - the atmosphere amongst the media and fans alike was just so much more positive than usual. The players seemed genuinely united and happy.

I felt we then retrospectively downplayed our achievements at the World Cup, and we’d begun to do that again at the Euros, seemingly looking for reasons outside of our team’s own talent for our success. I get it - there’s something called ‘imposter syndrome’, where you feel you don’t deserve to be somewhere because you are unworthy of such an achievement, assuming it must only be due to the failures of others.

I think that’s where we’ve been. It’s almost uncomfortable to see an England team so accomplished, so resolute, so incisive, so tactically astute - so mentally assured. It doesn’t feel like ‘us’. But I feel like last night’s performance and result shook off those insecurities - we now genuinely believe. This really is happening, this really is England and it really does feel like we’re not going to fúck this up somewhere along the line.

Gareth Southgate, the reluctant, accidental England manager. But without a shadow of a doubt, one of our best ever. And who knows - with an eminently winnable Euros in front of us and a squad that still will not have peaked in time for the World Cup in 18 months time, he could yet go on to be our greatest of all time, immortalised with the likes of Sir Alf Ramsey.

Who honestly saw that coming five years ago? Hands up - not me…

 

[drew]

I thought I'd look up Southgate's managerial career. For some reason I had it in my head he'd managed Forest as well as Boro but not so according to wikipedia. He was a young league manager, appointed before he'd got his badges. He took Boro down into the Championship and was sacked when he'd got them one point off the top. His successor (Gordon **** Strachan) failed to get Boro promoted. After the Boro sacking he spent 4 years out of football (doing what, Wiki doesn't say). Then he was back at England, first running the U21s fror 3 years before taking over the full national side. That was five years ago. So he may have been a surprise appointment but he has basically learned his trade while in the job over the last 5 years.

How long did it take Potter to become a top manager (some would argue he isn't one)? What about Sir Alex Ferguson? Sacked by St Mirren. Six years in management before his successes at Aberdeen. So I think it would be premature to dismiss Southgate as shit, lucky, clueless and a rubbish manager, yet. Some people can learn and improve. If Southgate needs to supplement his emotional intelligence skills by employing clever coaches, so be it.

Is it too early to say whether Southgate is a good England manager or not? It's too early to say.

So, if you looked at his previous managerial experience, what did he achieve at U21 level? Yes we got to tournaments but we failed to get out of any of the group stages.

The acid test for Southgate will be when he steps down from international management and tries his hand again at club management.

 

[Nitram]

My pie is out of the freezer, Wednesday should tell me if it’s fit to eat or consigned to the bin.

 

[Horses Arse]

"an England team so accomplished, so resolute, so incisive, so tactically astute"

That's a hell of a leap of faith reaching that conclusion. I don't think we've demonstrated that and no one would have made such statements if we hadn't had the luck against Germany.

Football is frequently a game of small margins. Let's see how we get on against Italy or Spain in the final as we must have already beaten Denmark from what I've read in this thread!

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

 

[herecomesaregular]

I haven't changed my mind on him at all. He fell into a job because his face/personality fitted, not because of his football management acumen.

We're doing well but still yet to meet quality opposition (Germany certainly weren't that).

He has a dearth of quality players which are carrying him through.

He's also surrounded himself with quality coaches for which I would praise him.

We are good enough to win the tournament but if we do, I'm not going to suddenly jump on the Southgate bandwagon. He was a poor manager before his appointment and I'll bet he will be a poor manager again when or if he returns to club management, unless of course he can surround himself with better coaches and have access to world class players!

So, if you looked at his previous managerial experience, what did he achieve at U21 level? Yes we got to tournaments but we failed to get out of any of the group stages.

The acid test for Southgate will be when he steps down from international management and tries his hand again at club management.

I don't understand this argument at all - club management and country management are completely different things surely, in terms of players available, coaching and how long is spent with the players? I wouldn't be confident that Southgate will be good club manager if he returns to that (and frankly couldn't care less) but he is showing himself to be an excellent manager for England. Apples and pears.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So, if you looked at his previous managerial experience, what did he achieve at U21 level? Yes we got to tournaments but we failed to get out of any of the group stages.

The acid test for Southgate will be when he steps down from international management and tries his hand again at club management.

Hmmm....I'm interested in his England management career.....if he trousers the Euros and/or the world cup, I'll salute him.

If I look at his previous managerial experience (again) I'll draw the same conclusion as I did earlier today (that it's too early to say whether Southgate is a good manager, and by that I mean good England manager).

The acid test for Southgates ability as a league manager will, indeed, be tested when he returns to league management. It will be an acid test that would have no interest for me, however, as I'm not interested in Southgate's future league manement career (unless he gets the Brighton job - can you imagine that ).

 

[Stat Brother]

It’s easy to forget how we came to have Gareth Southgate at the helm, and just what a mess the England set-up was then. Having recently been dumped out of the 2016 Euros by Iceland (ffs!), and having had a winless group stage exit at the 2014 World Cup, Roy Hodgson had handed over the reigns to one Big Sam Allardyce, a man who is to football management what beans on toast is to nouvelle cuisine.

We then struggled to a 1-0 injury time victory over Slovakia in his one game in charge, before he was forced out of the job by the Telegraph’s corruption expose. Honestly, what a mess, what an utter fúcking laughing stock we were back then, though it’s only 5 years ago.

I can’t tell you who I wanted in the job back then, because it was evident that no one with any credibility whatsoever wanted it. I will say however, I most certainly didn’t want Gareth Southgate - a man whose only achievement in management was successfully transitioning Middlesbrough from an established Premier League outfit into an established Championship side. His one tournament at the helm of the England under-21 team had ended with us bottom of the group. He had all the hallmarks of someone who would make an absolutely disastrous England manager.

Realistically, he was the only person who was willing to entertain the job, even on a caretaker basis. After he did alright (and not much more than that) in his first four or five games in charge, he got the job full time. My feelings at the time were very much that, with no other credible candidate on the horizon, Southgate would simply be less embarrassing to sack when things inevitably went south in a few games time. I’m certain that was the crux of the FA’s thinking at the time.

The rest, now, is history. My opinion of Southgate rapidly went up in the run up to the 2018 World Cup - the atmosphere amongst the media and fans alike was just so much more positive than usual. The players seemed genuinely united and happy.

I felt we then retrospectively downplayed our achievements at the World Cup, and we’d begun to do that again at the Euros, seemingly looking for reasons outside of our team’s own talent for our success. I get it - there’s something called ‘imposter syndrome’, where you feel you don’t deserve to be somewhere because you are unworthy of such an achievement, assuming it must only be due to the failures of others.

I think that’s where we’ve been. It’s almost uncomfortable to see an England team so accomplished, so resolute, so incisive, so tactically astute - so mentally assured. It doesn’t feel like ‘us’. But I feel like last night’s performance and result shook off those insecurities - we now genuinely believe. This really is happening, this really is England and it really does feel like we’re not going to fúck this up somewhere along the line.

Gareth Southgate, the reluctant, accidental England manager. But without a shadow of a doubt, one of our best ever. And who knows - with an eminently winnable Euros in front of us and a squad that still will not have peaked in time for the World Cup in 18 months time, he could yet go on to be our greatest of all time, immortalised with the likes of Sir Alf Ramsey.

Who honestly saw that coming five years ago? Hands up - not me…

That's so good I read it all.


I would say 'all of this' but for "My opinion of Southgate rapidly went up in the run up to the 2018 World Cup".
Mine didn't, I was still saying the same as those now who are still banging on about 'not playing anyone good, they were tired'.

TBH I think I might still be with them but for a light bulb moment regarding playing the tournament like Greece and not Spain.

My belief in GS has risen exponentially since then, despite my Albion rosy specs and loathing of The Harry's.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Fair play

Been some absolute shite on her the last month or so about England .
.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I don't understand this argument at all - club management and country management are completely different things surely, in terms of players available, coaching and how long is spent with the players? I wouldn't be confident that Southgate will be good club manager if he returns to that (and frankly couldn't care less) but he is showing himself to be an excellent manager for England. Apples and pears.

Couldn't agree more.

You have a limited pool of players and even more limited time with them and have to get the best out of that situation. And Southgate has taken us to two consecutive semis, with a young team that should hopefully develop further meaning he has been a success. How successful, we will know in the next week.

Managing top European club teams is a completely different challenge where budgets, playing style, tactics and time spent coaching and developing players into roles, is completely incomparable.

 

[herecomesaregular]

I'd be delighted to win the thing playing "no one good", "the opposition were tired", "we were lucky" etc. You can only play who is put in front of you and I'm sure the Greeks, Danes, Germans haven't over analysed their runs to the final and whether it was "really deserved" - who cares?!!

 

[Barham's tash]

That genuinely is the only thing that makes me doubt our ability to win on Wednesday. For the sake of the nation, please can ITV give it to the Beeb?

Semi Final is on both ITV and BBC, both will also have the final.

 

[Sheebo]

Way too much stick on here having done so well for England - World Cup semi ffs. But glad people can hold their hands up. Myself and many others said semi would represent a successful tourno, regardless of what happens now, but we’re gonna give it our all to make the final. Think Italy look brilliant, so want Spain to win!

 

[bhafc99]

Mings has hardly featured.

Thread closed.

 

[Swansman]

As long as you go out against Denmark, he is fine.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

There was a fair bit of scoreboard journalism after Wednesdays game where I thought Germany were poor and we were only slightly better but the result was the main thing. That said, I thought we were excellent and ruthless last night. Roll on Wednesday.