Some hard truths for the UKIP supporters...

[El Presidente]

OK, from the article you are quoting from can you confirm the last sentence..........I think its a quote from the FSB.

I wouldn't say it was just libertarian, frankly the EU has not been an economic success, countries like Spain are reaping what the EU has sown. I do not trust them to resolve the crisis..............beyond blind faith there is no hard evidence to suggest they will.

The FSB EU manifesto can be found here

http://www.fsb.org.uk/campaigns/assets/fsb_manifesto_2014.pdf

The comments from Mike Cherry can be found here, though not sure they can be found behind the paywall

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/46e37e52-926f-11e3-9e43-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=uk#axzz31nAqNKZ5

 

[Hamilton]

The FSB EU manifesto can be found here

http://www.fsb.org.uk/campaigns/assets/fsb_manifesto_2014.pdf

The comments from Mike Cherry can be found here, though not sure they can be found behind the paywall

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/46e37e52-926f-11e3-9e43-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=uk#axzz31nAqNKZ5

Thanks El Pres. Why is it these views aren't getting more exposure? Our media's obsession with playing the simplistic polarized views of this issue continues to frustrate me.

Elections are there to elect people with the right approach to policy making. One would think they are in fact a tool to sell more papers.

 

[cunning fergus]

The FSB EU manifesto can be found here

http://www.fsb.org.uk/campaigns/assets/fsb_manifesto_2014.pdf

The comments from Mike Cherry can be found here, though not sure they can be found behind the paywall

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/46e37e52-926f-11e3-9e43-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=uk#axzz31nAqNKZ5

The manifesto is predicated on making sure that the rules suit small businesses, and that is not always the case.................

http://www.fsb.org.uk/News.aspx?loc=pressroom&rec=8448

John Allan, National Chairman, Federation of Small Businesses, said:

"If you are a small business with 4,500 customers on your mailing list you might reconsider plans to grow your business for fear of having to spend over £75,000 each year in order to comply with data protection regulations. We urge European leaders not to press forward with this law in its current form as small businesses would clearly suffer. European leaders should look to the findings of the Prime Minister's Business Led Taskforce report into EU regulation which called for lawmakers to think of the impact on the smallest companies when drawing up new laws."

And this is now...............the future is an integrated EZ; there is no evidence to suggest the future will be benefit the countries outside the EU, notwithstanding whether the EZ countries will be prepared to sacrifice more national sovereignty.

To that end it does not matter what the CBI or FSB say...............

 

[El Presidente]

there is no evidence to suggest the future will be benefit the countries outside the EU

I agree with you entirely, which surely is a good reason to stay in it, as agreed by the CBI, Institute of Directors, and the FSB says it is 'good for business'.

The reasons for membership are economic, the reasons for withdrawal are increased sovereignty. I think we both know we're are opposite ends of the spectrum here.

I think Pretty Pink Fairy probably had it nailed when he said we all act in our own self interest.

 

[Hamilton]

I agree with you entirely, which surely is a good reason to stay in it, as agreed by the CBI, Institute of Directors, and the FSB says it is 'good for business'.

The reasons for membership are economic, the reasons for withdrawal are increased sovereignty. I think we both know we're are opposite ends of the spectrum here.

I think Pretty Pink Fairy probably had it nailed when he said we all act in our own self interest.

Yep, but I believe that Das Reich's views would actually be better served by staying in the EU than leaving. He'd be shocked if he thought leaving would damage little England and help those dastardly Spaniards and other EU hangers on.

(A few bingo words for you there bushy)

 

[brighton fella]

Yep, but I believe that Das Reich's views would actually be better served by staying in the EU than leaving. He'd be shocked if he thought leaving would damage little England and help those dastardly Spaniards and other EU hangers on.

(A few bingo words for you there bushy)

if "little England" as you claim it to be left the EU altogether there is no rule book saying England are obliged to help out spain or any other country come to that, Britain would become independent therefore we would no longer be committed in bailing out spain etc etc as we do now.

 

[Hamilton]

if "little England" as you claim it to be left the EU altogether there is no rule book saying England are obliged to help out spain or any other country come to that, Britain would become independent therefore we would no longer be committed in bailing out spain etc etc as we do now.

Yes, we'd instead just find it incredibly difficult to trade with a significant number of very close neighbours with whom we do a lot of business. But hey, why let that get in the way of short-term jingoism.

 

[Soulman]

Yes, we'd instead just find it incredibly difficult to trade with a significant number of very close neighbours with whom we do a lot of business. But hey, why let that get in the way of short-term jingoism.

I thought we imported more from the other EU countries than we exported. Something like 38% to 62%........do you think these countries with more to lose would stop trading.

 

[Hamilton]

I thought we imported more from the other EU countries than we exported. Something like 38% to 62%........do you think these countries with more to lose would stop trading.

You'd be wrong in thinking that then. We export to many countries and import from many countries.

 

[beorhthelm]

Yes, we'd instead just find it incredibly difficult to trade with a significant number of very close neighbours with whom we do a lot of business. But hey, why let that get in the way of short-term jingoism.

yes, incredibly difficult, just like trading with all the rest of the world which is near impossible. or not really. but why let realism of economics and markets get in the way when theres ideology of political union at risk.

 

[Soulman]

You'd be wrong in thinking that then. We export to many countries and import from many countries.

Really. I stated "EU countries".
So is this report wrong.
https://www.uktradeinfo.com/statistics/euoverseastrade/Pages/EuOTS.aspx

 

[brighton fella]

Yes, we'd instead just find it incredibly difficult to trade with a significant number of very close neighbours with whom we do a lot of business. But hey, why let that get in the way of short-term jingoism.

so Germany france ect would have no prolems in pulling the plug on us brits altogether if britain ever decided for itself to quit the EU ?
correct the EU does sell us far more than we could ever sell them. I cannot imagine for a single moment that it would be beneficial for any EU state to turn its back on Britain whilst negotiating a trading deal.. besides weve still got the commonwealth to turn too.
ful of self confidence you are ?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Did anyone watch the Labour Party Political Broadcast, surprised EM actually mentioned immigration. Did anyone actually believe a word he said or believe it is going to make any difference. Measures like making sure people can speak English, didn't they do that before? Did you also notice the type of people they selected to appear in his Party Political Broadcast, seriously why are politicians such crappy salesmen. Too scared to tell us how it really is.

This has been the problem all along and why the Labour party have lost a load of voters. Nobody trusts them anymore.
Basically if you look at this article, nothing is going to change.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/16/prejudice-immigration-ed-miliband-labour

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...4/English-language-certificates-for-sale.html


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...mistake-on-immigration-admits-Jack-Straw.html

 

[Milton Keynes Seagull]

if "little England" as you claim it to be left the EU altogether there is no rule book saying England are obliged to help out spain or any other country come to that, Britain would become independent therefore we would no longer be committed in bailing out spain etc etc as we do now.

I seem to recall that it was "little England" who stood alone in 1940 against a certain Mr Shicklegruber's attempt at creating the first United States of Europe, imposing his own country's will on everyone elses.

 

[brighton fella]

I seem to recall that it was "little England" who stood alone in 1940 against a certain Mr Shicklegruber's attempt at creating the first United States of Europe, imposing his own country's will on everyone elses.

can you imagine some crout or frog referring to his nation as "little", you really cant because it wouldn't happen, that unfortunately is the extent on how much weve been sold. not only our mainstream politicians be little us but the many of its own citizens do aswell ! its nothing short of treasonous and all I can say is that its a bloody good job our nation didn't adopt that kind of attitude in 1939 when faced with a fight against german occupation. isn't it ironic how this time around we find our nation has surrendered without a single gun shot being fired in retaliation.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

You'd be wrong in thinking that then. We export to many countries and import from many countries.

Soulman did say EU countries...and as the Revenue chart shows we DO import more from the EU than export to the EU...and pay the privilege of £50 million a day on top of that inbalance.

 

[El Presidente]

yes, incredibly difficult, just like trading with all the rest of the world which is near impossible. or not really. but why let realism of economics and markets get in the way when theres ideology of political union at risk.

We export more to Belgium than we do to China.

I'm currently banned from working in Russia, was subject to an interrogation by border security when working in San Francisco, and can only do online work with Beijing.

 

[El Presidente]

Soulman did say EU countries...and as the Revenue chart shows we DO import more from the EU than export to the EU...and pay the privilege of £50 million a day on top of that inbalance.

We do have a trade deficit with the EU, as we do with many countries, and have done so before joining the EEC in 1973, so I'm not sure what point you are making.

Trade benefits consumers by giving them more choice and lower prices, so why do you seem opposed to it?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

We do have a trade deficit with the EU, as we do with many countries, and have done so before joining the EEC in 1973, so I'm not sure what point you are making.

Trade benefits consumers by giving them more choice and lower prices, so why do you seem opposed to it?

hold on HOW COMES THE BASICS LIKE FOOD AND HEATING HAVE GONE UP
regards
DR

 

[El Presidente]

hold on HOW COMES THE BASICS LIKE FOOD AND HEATING HAVE GONE UP
regards
DR

Good question:

1: Food prices have risen due to :

(a) The increase in the middle classes in China, who are eating less rice and more wheat and sugar. This has driven up prices for these products.
(b) Poor harvests in countries such as Brazil, Australia and the USA, partly due to climate change, have reduced the quantity of basic foodstuffs being produced.
(c) The switch to biofuels, which has meant that farmers are planting fewer crops for human consumption and more for conversion into ehanol.

2: Heating prices have risen due to:

(a) Privatisation of energy companies, nearly all of the gas and electricity producing companies are now foreign owned.
(b) Decline in production of North Sea output
(c) Carbon emission taxes
(d) Closure of nuclear energy plants in Germany following the Fukishima disaster in Japan.