Some hard truths for the UKIP supporters...

[Pretty pink fairy]

I don't believe immigration is a problem actually. You lot do. There certainly are deep problems with this country, we have people using food banks for Pete's sakes but UKIP certainly aren't the solution. They just like to rinse European tax payers money. Which they admit they do and do so in return for, again self admittedly, barely any work.

give your head a wobble Nibble, do you ever go out or do you just sit at home reading the newspapers and listening to the news , HONESTLY SOME PEOPLE
regards
DR

 

[beorhthelm]

I tend to look at facts and figures not scaremongering. If you don't like little brown people just say.

scaremongering on immigration from the Independent and Guardian? methinks you are in denial.

 

[cunning fergus]

Why do you think the CBI is in favour of EU membership?

Because they essentially represent large multinational businesses who have greater potential for profit by remaining in the EU. They are certainly not the voice of British business per se, and not least the millions of SMEs who are run by the Federation of Small Businesses; not that you hear their voice on TV much. Any views on why that is…………………

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/826a26b8-9267-11e3-9e43-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=uk#axzz31mnuFGm1

The CBI has long been a flag waver for the EU, and whilst I don’t doubt there is capitalist merit in much of their influence, I don’t see that their monetarist (and biased) view should hold any more sway than other lobby groups; after all back in the 90s they were demanding that the UK join the euro………………till it all went wrong.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/500231.stm

I have said many times before I can understand many of the economic arguments for the EU, however they are in the past and there is significant change coming; whether this is in the UK’s interest is unknown. So far the EU, its politicians, its bureacrats, its systems, its lack of democratic legitimacy and its lack of competence have all contributed to the train crash that is the current EU, I don’t see why I should place any trust in them to get it right this time.

One last link……………and one that I think (despite being from the Spectator) captures some interesting views on the historical pro/anti argument, of which my favourite part is from Rod Liddle:

“As Rod Liddle, then editor of the Radio 4’s Today programme, said: ‘The whole ethos of the BBC and all the staff was that Eurosceptics were xenophobes and there was an end to it. The euro would come up at a meeting and everybody would just burst out laughing about the Eurosceptics.’ Liddle recalls one meeting with a very senior figure at the BBC to deal with Eurosceptic complaints of bias. ‘Rod, the thing you have to understand is that these people are mad. They are mad.’”

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/7256618/the-great-euro-swindle/

Pro EU supporters regularly say they want a rational debate, yet as we see with the rise of UKIP, many just want to play the man and not the ball………………given the disaster that has befallen many of the countries that joined the euro, its is clear to me that those who demand more EU are the ones who are quite literally mad.

 

[El Presidente]

Because they essentially represent large multinational businesses who have greater potential for profit by remaining in the EU. They are certainly not the voice of British business per se, and not least the millions of SMEs who are run by the Federation of Small Businesses; not that you hear their voice on TV much. Any views on why that is…………………

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/826a26b8-9267-11e3-9e43-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=uk#axzz31mnuFGm1

The CBI has long been a flag waver for the EU, and whilst I don’t doubt there is capitalist merit in much of their influence, I don’t see that their monetarist (and biased) view should hold any more sway than other lobby groups; after all back in the 90s they were demanding that the UK join the euro………………till it all went wrong.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/500231.stm

I have said many times before I can understand many of the economic arguments for the EU, however they are in the past and there is significant change coming; whether this is in the UK’s interest is unknown. So far the EU, its politicians, its bureacrats, its systems, its lack of democratic legitimacy and its lack of competence have all contributed to the train crash that is the current EU, I don’t see why I should place any trust in them to get it right this time.

One last link……………and one that I think (despite being from the Spectator) captures some interesting views on the historical pro/anti argument, of which my favourite part is from Rod Liddle:

“As Rod Liddle, then editor of the Radio 4’s Today programme, said: ‘The whole ethos of the BBC and all the staff was that Eurosceptics were xenophobes and there was an end to it. The euro would come up at a meeting and everybody would just burst out laughing about the Eurosceptics.’ Liddle recalls one meeting with a very senior figure at the BBC to deal with Eurosceptic complaints of bias. ‘Rod, the thing you have to understand is that these people are mad. They are mad.’”

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/7256618/the-great-euro-swindle/

Pro EU supporters regularly say they want a rational debate, yet as we see with the rise of UKIP, many just want to play the man and not the ball………………given the disaster that has befallen many of the countries that joined the euro, its is clear to me that those who demand more EU are the ones who are quite literally mad.

Thanks for your considered viewpoint. I'm not in favour of more EU, and I don't think anyone is the UK is advocating increasing their powers.

All I can say is that as a one man consultancy business, who generates 30% of my revenue from the EU, it's not proven to be too much of a problem for me, certainly less than my experiences working in Russia and the US, where visas and permits are a nightmare to deal with.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

thanks for your considered viewpoint. I'm not in favour of more eu, and i don't think anyone is the uk is advocating increasing their powers.

All i can say is that as a one man consultancy business, who generates 30% of my revenue from the eu, it's not proven to be too much of a problem for me, certainly less than my experiences working in russia and the us, where visas and permits are a nightmare to deal with.

and there you have it, making it harder to gain entry into this country
regards
DR

 

[El Presidente]

and there you have it, making it harder to gain entry into this country
regards
DR

I'm sure you, like I, have enjoyed gaining entry on the Eastern front DR.

Regards

EP

 

[El Presidente]

Because they essentially represent large multinational businesses who have greater potential for profit by remaining in the EU. They are certainly not the voice of British business per se, and not least the millions of SMEs who are run by the Federation of Small Businesses; not that you hear their voice on TV much. Any views on why that is…………………

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/826a26b8-9267-11e3-9e43-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=uk#axzz31mnuFGm1

However the FSB then clarified their position, saying that the EU is good for business.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/46e37e52-926f-11e3-9e43-00144feab7de.html#axzz31nAqNKZ5

As for Rod Liddle, he makes Nigel Farrange seem sane.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I'm sure you, like I, have enjoyed gaining entry on the Eastern front DR.

Regards

EP

let's face it EP, we're all looking after our own self interest aren't we , come on now be honest
regards
DR

 

[El Presidente]

let's face it EP, we're all looking after our own self interest aren't we , come on now be honest
regards
DR

Absolutely DR, I'll match your Tatiana and raise you a Svetlana

Regards

EP

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Absolutely DR, I'll match your Tatiana and raise you a Svetlana

Regards

EP

mmmmmmmmmmm, you can look but you can't touch!, obviously that gold band isn't slowing you up
regards
DR

 

[El Presidente]

mmmmmmmmmmm, you can look but you can't touch!, obviously that gold band isn't slowing you up
regards
DR

I'm not like Guppy!

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I'm not like Guppy!

ah yes ,he always has a good word to say about you
regards
DR

 

[El Presidente]

ah yes ,he always has a good word to say about you
regards
DR

Many a time I shared a train with him back in the '80's

 

[cunning fergus]

However the FSB then clarified their position, saying that the EU is good for business.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/46e37e52-926f-11e3-9e43-00144feab7de.html#axzz31nAqNKZ5

As for Rod Liddle, he makes Nigel Farrange seem sane.

They clarified that point and also that they wanted a voice in the debate, however they were still relaxed about an exit.

The critical point here is that we always get to hear the CBI’s pro EU view and very rarely do we get a more pragmatic outlook from a business group like the FSB.

I will repeat again, I understand many of the economic arguments for the EU, however why should that mean the EU’s political framework in-situ now is the only show in town. Why does (for example) the free movement of labour have to be a non-negotiable issue for member states? I know the genesis of these requirements, however like the Human Rights Act its contemporary interpretation is not how it was intended when implemented in the aftermath of WWII.

I like Rod Liddle myself; he seems old school Labour to me and his point about the BBC's attitude to euro scepticism stands. The individuals who are currently seeking to attack and discredit UKIP would have likely been the very same people hell bent on joining the euro years ago and labelling euro sceptics then as xenophobes and mad.

It is a mystery to me that their views are still treated with any other than contempt………………especially the likes of "economists" like Will Hutton.

http://www.globaldashboard.org/2011/11/15/has-will-hutton-gone-mad/

 

[El Presidente]

They clarified that point and also that they wanted a voice in the debate, however they were still relaxed about an exit.

The critical point here is that we always get to hear the CBI’s pro EU view and very rarely do we get a more pragmatic outlook from a business group like the FSB.

I will repeat again, I understand many of the economic arguments for the EU, however why should that mean the EU’s political framework in-situ now is the only show in town. Why does (for example) the free movement of labour have to be a non-negotiable issue for member states? I know the genesis of these requirements, however like the Human Rights Act its contemporary interpretation is not how it was intended when implemented in the aftermath of WWII.

I like Rod Liddle myself; he seems old school Labour to me and his point about the BBC's attitude to euro scepticism stands. The individuals who are currently seeking to attack and discredit UKIP would have likely been the very same people hell bent on joining the euro years ago and labelling euro sceptics then as xenophobes and mad.

It is a mystery to me that their views are still treated with any other than contempt………………especially the likes of "economists" like Will Hutton.

http://www.globaldashboard.org/2011/11/15/has-will-hutton-gone-mad/

Rod Liddle is just Richard Littlejohn in a wonky mirror. I know you're not particularly bothered by the Albion, but his anti-Albion views get on my tits.

I know from my own BBC experiences that they're not a reflection of society as a whole, but they do let all sides express their views.

 

[brighton fella]

Sorry, you lost all credit with your new world order nonsense.

nonsense is it, and you reckon anyone who votes UKIP are naïve only a fool could dismiss it. what more evidence other than the EU do you need ?

 

[brighton fella]

Rod Liddle is just Richard Littlejohn in a wonky mirror. I know you're not particularly bothered by the Albion, but his anti-Albion views get on my tits.

I know from my own BBC experiences that they're not a reflection of society as a whole, but they do let all sides express their views.

that's to fool you in to believing their genuine, you only have to look at the selected audience's on question time to know if their genuine or not, anyone with a right wing view is on a hiding for nothing & soon gets shouted down.

 

[El Presidente]

They clarified that point and also that they wanted a voice in the debate, however they were still relaxed about an exit.

The critical point here is that we always get to hear the CBI’s pro EU view and very rarely do we get a more pragmatic outlook from a business group like the FSB.

Here's the pragmatic comment from the FSB policy chairman (and I think he sums up my position far better than I could)

"I want to clarify your report “Small businesses relaxed about EU exit” (February 11), in which the comments give the opinion that members of the Federation of Small Businesses don’t have a view on whether the UK remains in or out of the European Union.

Let’s be clear. The EU is good for business but needs more flexibility for the future. UK companies have benefited from the lifting of trade barriers and free movement of goods and services that stem from the creation of the single market.

However, the EU needs reform for our businesses to compete with emerging powers in today’s global economy. We want to see completion of the single market and a more flexible approach in Europe to regulation, often cited by FSB members as a key concern affecting delivery of their aspirations to grow"

I don't see how you interpret that as being relaxed about withdrawal of EU membership?

I fully respect your position, and appreciate that yours is more of a libertarian approach than mine.

 

[cunning fergus]

Rod Liddle is just Richard Littlejohn in a wonky mirror. I know you're not particularly bothered by the Albion, but his anti-Albion views get on my tits.

I know from my own BBC experiences that they're not a reflection of society as a whole, but they do let all sides express their views.

Whatever, he is not a liar, and the BBC has acknowledged its reporting bias..........little wonder given it receives payments from the EU courtesy of the UK taxpayer.

As for me and BHA, I don't know you and you evidently don't know me.

 

[cunning fergus]

Here's the pragmatic comment from the FSB policy chairman (and I think he sums up my position far better than I could)



I don't see how you interpret that as being relaxed about withdrawal of EU membership?

I fully respect your position, and appreciate that yours is more of a libertarian approach than mine.

OK, from the article you are quoting from can you confirm the last sentence..........I think its a quote from the FSB.

I wouldn't say it was just libertarian, frankly the EU has not been an economic success, countries like Spain are reaping what the EU has sown. I do not trust them to resolve the crisis..............beyond blind faith there is no hard evidence to suggest they will.