I find it good practice to read an entire thread before replying to something early on in a thread, especially when I'm replying to something from several days back. With so many people on here, there's every chance that whatever reply I make will have been made by someone else posting whatever I was going to say, and me posting it again will just be redundant. Especially if there is something controversial, or outlandish that I want to address.
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Should knight face the music...
- Thread starter murraymints4brighton
- Start date
I find it good practice to read an entire thread before replying to something early on in a thread, especially when I'm replying to something from several days back. With so many people on here, there's every chance that whatever reply I make will have been made by someone else posting whatever I was going to say, and me posting it again will just be redundant. Especially if there is something controversial, or outlandish that I want to address.
But its not crap just facts - just because i CAN'T name the source doesn't make any of what i say lies
NMH
Banned
The board headed by DK has put a collective foot in it's mouth by sacking Wilkins and hiring Adams. It has ultimately tainted the history of BHAFC (Adams' reputation, and the treatment of the long-serving from-the-ranks manager), and possibly blighted the future for the club if we were to go down (distinctly possible...nay, likely).
In my opinion the shadowy reasoning and lack of explanation from the board has been convenient to hide the boardroom's TOTAL eff-up (the selfish 'we want superman and we want him now/our necks are put out by someone we thought was a "yes-man"').
However, when Knight faces questions, does anyone think it's at all likely that he'd hold his hands up in admittance for having played the cards so bad, and got it so wrong?
Or would he still have smoke and mirrors that can cloud the issues clearly reflect on the pitch and our league position ("the truth that does not lie" as Ernest would say)?
I'm not sure, after finding their own reasons to replace DW, that they even HAVE a fair overview of what has transpired!
What a boardroom needs is NOT men of money thinking about their own side all the time, what it DOES need is people of measured thinking to pragmatically judge and present the club's best interests - for all concerned. Money men usually do not know how to properly look after all the concerns of a football business. See also Newcastle United, and Leeds United, and to some extent Chelsea (regarding almost every manager they've had in their short Russian-mafia period. Morinho/Shevchunko a prime example of foolish dabbling) for a few examples.
Who has the balanced viewpoint of board behaviour? And if they did have a person, would they even listen to that person when they go against the board's whims and desires?
No, it's not that you can't handle the truth - you just can't expect the truth from the totally biased mind of the chairman. It'll be some convoluted explanations that will cloud issues, and mirror selfish desires from the boardroom.
In my opinion the shadowy reasoning and lack of explanation from the board has been convenient to hide the boardroom's TOTAL eff-up (the selfish 'we want superman and we want him now/our necks are put out by someone we thought was a "yes-man"').
However, when Knight faces questions, does anyone think it's at all likely that he'd hold his hands up in admittance for having played the cards so bad, and got it so wrong?
Or would he still have smoke and mirrors that can cloud the issues clearly reflect on the pitch and our league position ("the truth that does not lie" as Ernest would say)?
I'm not sure, after finding their own reasons to replace DW, that they even HAVE a fair overview of what has transpired!
What a boardroom needs is NOT men of money thinking about their own side all the time, what it DOES need is people of measured thinking to pragmatically judge and present the club's best interests - for all concerned. Money men usually do not know how to properly look after all the concerns of a football business. See also Newcastle United, and Leeds United, and to some extent Chelsea (regarding almost every manager they've had in their short Russian-mafia period. Morinho/Shevchunko a prime example of foolish dabbling) for a few examples.
Who has the balanced viewpoint of board behaviour? And if they did have a person, would they even listen to that person when they go against the board's whims and desires?
No, it's not that you can't handle the truth - you just can't expect the truth from the totally biased mind of the chairman. It'll be some convoluted explanations that will cloud issues, and mirror selfish desires from the boardroom.
Are you suggesting that Knight and the board are not that? Because I'm sorry, this season may have been an unmitigating disaster, but that doesn't mean that Knight and the board did not seriously think about what they were doing before acting. If you are suggesting that, then surely the entire board of directors needs replacing?
In fact, I would hedge my bets that it was totally the opposite. But the truth is, neither of us know.
Crap which you pass off as facts. And yes it does, particularly when it suits whatever twisted agenda you have.
In judging Knight you have to look at the big picture.
Did he help rescue us when no one would have given us a chance yes
After spending a souless year in Gillingham, wasn't he chairman when we returned to Brighton - yes
Did we not win back to back Championships whilst he was chairman - yes
Did we not bounce back to the Championship, after a fine day out at the Millenium stadium whilst as Chairman - yes
Haven't we secured planning permission for Falmer whilst he has been chairman - yes
Hasn't building of Falmer started whilst he is chairman - yes
Ok there have been negatives, yes we have been relegated out of the championship, but currently we are totally skint and have devine riht to be there.
Maybe bigger mistakes have been this season. Whether it was a mistake to sack Wendy, well we dont know the ins and outs of that. What was a mistake was employing Adams. It was a gamble. Clearly he was a man on the downward slope as it were. Still none of us at that time were screaming that Adams would relegate us.
Perhaps the big mistake, was that clearly things were not working out and Adams should have gone a lot sooner. I think blaming Knight for that is justified.
Hopefully Knight and the board will start to put things right, i.e full time manager with own staff and a playing budget that will enable us to get out of league 2. That is in the interests of everyone.
If you are judging Knight over his tenure, then I think his record says it all. He has been a very very good chairman. This season hopefully being a blip. I wouldn't want him gone
Did he help rescue us when no one would have given us a chance yes
After spending a souless year in Gillingham, wasn't he chairman when we returned to Brighton - yes
Did we not win back to back Championships whilst he was chairman - yes
Did we not bounce back to the Championship, after a fine day out at the Millenium stadium whilst as Chairman - yes
Haven't we secured planning permission for Falmer whilst he has been chairman - yes
Hasn't building of Falmer started whilst he is chairman - yes
Ok there have been negatives, yes we have been relegated out of the championship, but currently we are totally skint and have devine riht to be there.
Maybe bigger mistakes have been this season. Whether it was a mistake to sack Wendy, well we dont know the ins and outs of that. What was a mistake was employing Adams. It was a gamble. Clearly he was a man on the downward slope as it were. Still none of us at that time were screaming that Adams would relegate us.
Perhaps the big mistake, was that clearly things were not working out and Adams should have gone a lot sooner. I think blaming Knight for that is justified.
Hopefully Knight and the board will start to put things right, i.e full time manager with own staff and a playing budget that will enable us to get out of league 2. That is in the interests of everyone.
If you are judging Knight over his tenure, then I think his record says it all. He has been a very very good chairman. This season hopefully being a blip. I wouldn't want him gone
Isn't listing things like this similar to a chef saying
"Did I cook you a steak? - Yes
Did I cook you chips? - Yes
Did I cook onion rings? - yes
Did I put them on a plate? - Yes
That's 4 things I did!!"
It's one meal. You cooked one meal, don't break it down to make it seem more of an achievement.
Knight was part of a consortium (I seem to remember Liam Brady playing a part, too, but I'm sure people will correct me if I'm wrong). Part of the consortium saving this club was the task of getting us falmer, and bringing the club back home. It is really one big task, it is "cook a meal" you can't then break it down as if achieving each step of the big process is an individual success. If we didn't get falmer, we wouldn't be able to stay at withdean indefinitely, and we would end up homeless, at best ground sharing perhaps with Crawley, or even gillingham again, so the whole thing has to be achieved or the little steps are irrelevant.
Having said that, bringing the club home and getting falmer is a fantastic achievement and definitely one for the 'pluses' column.
And this would be equivalent to saying "did the plate of food arrive at your table while I was chef? Yes"
We made it to the millennium stadium through the lottery of a penalty shoot out. How can that possibly be credited to the Chairman?
And incidentally, that day out, imo, given that after Coppell's last game in charge we were top of the division, one point clear, was a sign of failure for that season.
We've been relegated from there twice. And we spent more money in the January transfer window this year than most, if not all, the other teams in our division. Totally skint?
It isn't just this season, though. Granted there are differences of opinion, but there's a thread somewhere back where everyone has been posting where they each believe things started to go wrong, among the different opinions:
-Failing to back McGhee in the january transfer window the year we got relegated
-Failing to sack McGhee in the summer
-Sacking McGhee
-appointing Wilkins
-Not replacing Wilkins
-Letting Dean Hammond go (not necessarily from a playing standpoint, but in a morale/message from the board/team balance)
-sacking Wilkins
-Not advertising the vacant manager's job
-bringing back micky (there were, by all accounts, people saying it was a bad idea and would bite the club in the backside back when he came back)
I posted another thread a while back pointing out how our aura of invincibility at withdean was destroyed when we went to the championship, and since then we've never been as solid at home. (That's not really the chairman's fault though, just putting my idea out there)
Most of them took place before the start of this season.
Like you, I hope it's a blip, but given how far back it might go, there's every chance we're on a downward slide.
What exactly does the chairman do? I read a post on here that said he was simply the human resource guy. He hires and fires people and that was all he did. That limits what you can give him credit for and what you blame him for, you can't give him credit for getting falmer, bringing us home to the city of brighton and hove, while yo can give him credit for hiring the players and managers that get us promoted, you can't give him credit for them doing their jobs, and you also have to give him the blame for hiring the players/managers that take us down.
If that's the case, essentially, all you can give him credit for is the hirings and firings, hiring the right people and those people should be getting the credit for what they achieve (coming home, falmer, avoiding administration etc.)
But I suspect there is more to a chairman's job and I'm sure someone will let me know if I'm wrong. This thread has proven there's no shortage of people willing to do that.
NMH
Banned
Yes, I am suggesting that DK and the board are not completely pragmatic, and that their judgements do need tempering with someone who doesn't have blinkers on - and isn't influenced by personal stakes, doesn't feel affronted by managers coming to them about financial or contract issues, and will work with that person so that such issues can be translated to both parties. When DW tried to translate such issues he became the goat, the issues became his fault, and he was blamed enough to get sacked as manager.
So? They "never had those problems with Adams" and hired him again.
Supposedly, from their pov, problem solved.
The season has indeed been an unmitigated disaster - nail on head. The board almost certainly DID think about what they were doing in Wilkinsgate, but they looked at it from a self-centred viewpoint instead of a club-centred one. The hard-to-watch evidence of that has been seen on the pitch.
Ever tried looking at a personal problem from a drawing-board perspective?
It helps a lot to do that instead of being hot-headed and taking the most obvious steps.
London Pompous
Active member
- Feb 16, 2008
- 660
The Great Cornholio
New member
You are a proven, self confessed liar. End of story.
NMH
Banned
EXCELLENT post, if I may say so.
I'd opine that Knight should garner a lot of credit for his part, as there may not have still existed a league club Brighton and Hove Albion.
The facts WERE that DK did oversee things very fairly, gave good people a fair chance to try their hand (i.e. Hinshelwood) and still attracted good managers (such as Coppell and to some extent McGhee). When things went wrong though, it has illustrated his fallibility. When the whip hand has eventually been shown, the reasoning behind it was not (as far as I can see) strong enough. This season has found us counting the names and faces that have passed through the training-room door, and without an end in sight either. It hasn't been healthy.
What's strange though, is that all these events have been going down against the backdrop of the huge success - Falmer got the go-ahead.
But - the foundations for Falmer....are they made of concrete and steel?
Aren't they made of goals, wins, points, football, fans paying at the turnstiles?
NMH
Banned
The Large One
Who's Next?
Don't know that there have been fans' meetings with this Board at all.
sir albion
New member
Dick is a lost man these days
Im finding it very interesting that all the dick knight arse lickers on here are actually trying to pass the buck onto other board members mmmmmmm.
Quiet interesting as when everything is going great you all applaud knight
get the stadium...applaud knight
get great signings.... applaud knight
money to spend....applaud knight
Just sums are most of you idiots it really does as most of these above are actually not much to do with knight.
The man gets all the applause's for everything from players to falmer and you applaud him,yet when things go wrong you accuse other board members ha ha ha hilarious.
Im finding it very interesting that all the dick knight arse lickers on here are actually trying to pass the buck onto other board members mmmmmmm.
Quiet interesting as when everything is going great you all applaud knight
get the stadium...applaud knight
get great signings.... applaud knight
money to spend....applaud knight
Just sums are most of you idiots it really does as most of these above are actually not much to do with knight.
The man gets all the applause's for everything from players to falmer and you applaud him,yet when things go wrong you accuse other board members ha ha ha hilarious.
sir albion
New member
Post of the year and great to see someone who actually isn't brainwashed
Sorry Acker79, you are quite right, I hadn't read your reply. I apologise, you are definitely not a tool, trying to backtrack now.
My overlying feelings is that Dick has screwed up, I know Wendy wasn't eveyone's cup of tea. However if he was still here, would be be staring relegation in the face with a vastly changed squad? I doubt it!
Sorry Acker79, you are quite right, I hadn't read your reply. I apologise, you are definitely not a tool, trying to backtrack now.
My overlying feelings is that Dick has screwed up, I know Wendy wasn't eveyone's cup of tea. However if he was still here, would be be staring relegation in the face with a vastly changed squad? I doubt it!
No problem, I understand Bill Archer is still a sore spot for a lot of fans and just the mention of his names can cause a red mist.
Post of the year and great to see someone who actually isn't brainwashed
Quite a turn around from my first post in this thread...
London Pompous
Active member
- Feb 16, 2008
- 660
I second that.
London Pompous
Active member
- Feb 16, 2008
- 660
I think we would certainly have a vastly changed squad, as Wendy got rid of a lot of players at the end of last season. Rumour (not fact) was that Murray would have left in the summer as he didn't get on with Wilkins, so that would have been one more change.
I am confident that with Wilkins in charge we would have finished somewhere between 1st and 24 th this season.