Sheffield Wednesday facing administration

[Gwylan]

According to footballforums.net the Co-op bank have bailed them out.

Wednesday Admin Rumour (Again) - Page 3 - Football Forums

One question that does baffle me about this is why banks treat football clubs so leniently. It seems that every day I read something in the paper about the lack of credit; people can't mortgages, businesses can't get loans, overdrafts get called in etc.
See here for an example
Forum urges small firms to tell of their banking experiences via online survey

Yet if a football club gets into trouble the banks are delighted to write off debt, accept pennies in a pound and throw more money at clubs clearly not paying their way. Why do clubs get treated so differently from other businesses?

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Another difference is the attitude of the fans of the other clubs being discussed on here.

I don't remember Albion fans clamouring for the club to kick its creditors in the nuts when it was our own fault (i.e the club) that got us in trouble. Fans united was in response to Archer et al arse raping us*.

Contrast this with palarse and their spontaneous protest on the last f***ing day when the bank was poised to bin them...all appearing demanding that the bank /taxman just do one because the fans would suffer if CPFC sank in its own shit...the same fans who were crowing about how massive they were when they were buying success and happily bankrupting themselves in the process.

Hypocrisy is the difference between our plight and the others mentioned.

*edit: I see this point was made earlier

 

[Acker79]

you seem to have an opinion on everything, so I asked the question. If you dont want to answer it, dont

Oh. 'k. It seemed like you were reading more into my post, and I couldn't tell if you thought I was mocking the people who were coming up with the ridiculous hypotheticals, or actually defending them.


As far as SW is concerned, administration and winding up orders seem part and parcel of the game these days. Clubs very rarely get wound up, and most administrations have little effect on a club's season, and the worst that happens is the club struggles for a while.

On top of that, we have these discussions frequently (happened several times last season with palace, pompey, etc)

As such I find it hard to get worked up about this.

 

[Uwinsc]

Regardless of who's fault it is they are in trouble I wouldn't want us to go up because another club has been deducted points/gone bust I would much prefer it if we beat them by winning more points. I'm not saying I wouldn't be delighted if we went up in these circumstances but it would be tinged with the feeling we didn't really deserve it.

 

[Jim in the West]

Regardless of who's fault it is they are in trouble I wouldn't want us to go up because another club has been deducted points/gone bust I would much prefer it if we beat them by winning more points. I'm not saying I wouldn't be delighted if we went up in these circumstances but it would be tinged with the feeling we didn't really deserve it.

But if they went up having massively overspent and secured the services of players they couldn't really afford, then that would be ok....?

 

[Tooting Gull]

Regardless of who's fault it is they are in trouble I wouldn't want us to go up because another club has been deducted points/gone bust I would much prefer it if we beat them by winning more points. I'm not saying I wouldn't be delighted if we went up in these circumstances but it would be tinged with the feeling we didn't really deserve it.

Exactly. And don't tell me anyone who was at that Cheaterfield game when we 'clinched' the title wasn't ecstatic that by beating them it meant we won the title fair and square EVEN without the points deduction (not that that is how it was reported by some of the more dullard national media).

 

[bhaexpress]

But if they went up having massively overspent and secured the services of players they couldn't really afford, then that would be ok....?

That's the point though isn't it ? I'd like the opportunity to live beyond my means and not pay my taxes but I won't get the chance.

 

[beorhthelm]

Yet if a football club gets into trouble the banks are delighted to write off debt, accept pennies in a pound and throw more money at clubs clearly not paying their way. Why do clubs get treated so differently from other businesses?

well, there is the offsetting of loses against tax. large businesses get treated in a similar way, being able to refinance their debt with relative ease (though not go into adminitration, its only football where this seems acceptable). owe the bank £100k and it your problem, owe the bank £100million and its there's.

 

[Gwylan]

well, there is the offsetting of loses against tax. large businesses get treated in a similar way, being able to refinance their debt with relative ease (though not go into adminitration, its only football where this seems acceptable). owe the bank £100k and it your problem, owe the bank £100million and its there's.

Well, Connaught is expected to go into administration today with £225m debt

BBC News - Connaught administration threatens thousands of jobs

That's for a company that has a multitude of local government/housing assoc contracts

But banks refused to finance it any more, yet seemingly will do so for Weds (as they did for Pompey, Cardiff etc)

I admit that the level of debt is higher than football clubs' - which may be a factor - but surely there's a company that could be restructured.

 

[Brovion]

Your last point is so true - there are far too many idiots on this board who constantly carp on at the likes of DK and TB for not spending. Thank the Lord that for the past 13 years this club has been run as soundly as any in the FL, and far more ethically than many. It really hacks me off that the likes of Leicester, Palarse, Pompey, Cardiff, Southampton, and others have been run with little regard for their hard-working suppliers, and have, by and large, got away with it. The 10 point penalty for administration is a pathetic deterrent.

I know what you're saying but there is a large part of me that thinks we may have missed a trick. Perhaps we should have followed the Leicester/Leeds/Pompey etc model and spent well beyond our capacity to ever pay our debts. We could have had Premiership football at Withdean! We've seen that for big clubs the punishment never fits the crime, fans of other clubs would still feel sorry for us (no matter who we'd shafted), and as we rent the ground we wouldn't have lost it.

However ultimately I think we followed the right course in that it's only ever the big clubs who get away with it. I think we'd have been too small to hide behind a trail of offshore companies, dodgy owners and fictious debts, and ultimately we'd have 'done an Aldershot' rather than a Leeds Pompey or Palace.

 

[Easy 10]

Regardless of who's fault it is they are in trouble I wouldn't want us to go up because another club has been deducted points/gone bust I would much prefer it if we beat them by winning more points. I'm not saying I wouldn't be delighted if we went up in these circumstances but it would be tinged with the feeling we didn't really deserve it.

I'd prefer us to do it by winning more points as well.
But I'd certainly have no qualms about going up at their expense if they'd been deducted points for going into administration. They cheated the system to get players they couldn't actually afford, so bollocks to them.

Leicester took 6 points off us that year they played in the Championship, whilst in administration, in their new stadium and with their Premiership squad of players. They went straight back up, while we were relegated by 5 points (and the Champions that season ? Pompey).

Unfortunately in football cheats DO prosper, quite regularly. So I won't shed a tear if we finish above a team courtesy of a points deduction.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Exactly. And don't tell me anyone who was at that Cheaterfield game when we 'clinched' the title wasn't ecstatic that by beating them it meant we won the title fair and square EVEN without the points deduction (not that that is how it was reported by some of the more dullard national media).

But equally anyone who didn't piss themselves laughing when Leeds didn't go up after thier 15 point deduction in 2007/8 has a complete sense of humour failure.

 

[Dirty Dave]

It has been confirmed by BBC that Wednesday will NOT be entering administration

 

[Steve Foster]

Sheffield Wednesday need long-term support - Wilkinson

Wilkinson is looking for long term investment for the Owls
Sheffield Wednesday chairman Howard Wilkinson says any potential investors must be able to protect the League One club's long-term future.

The Owls have avoided going into administration after their bank agreed to secure their immediate future.

"When we do get investment they will have to show they can manage the club properly on a sound basis," Wilkinson told BBC Radio Sheffield.

"Investment is crucial, but investment on its own will not solve the problem."

The Co-operative Bank confirmed to the High Court on Wednesday that they had given the Owls the facility to pay £1.1 owed to Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs in unpaid tax.

What you need, as well as investment, is sound management because we are not going to attract someone who is going to waste money

Howard Wilkinson
At the hearing, club representative Hugo Groves confirmed that the club are actively seeking investment.

"There are very serious and advanced negotiations for the sale of the club," he said.

But Wilkinson has warned that Wednesday must be careful about any future agreements that could be in the pipeline.

"We need to make sure above all that we do not get to a position where the future of the football club is as close to curtains as it has been this week," he said.

"What you need, as well as investment, is sound management because we are not going to attract someone who is going to waste money."

 

[Simster]

I know what you're saying but there is a large part of me that thinks we may have missed a trick. Perhaps we should have followed the Leicester/Leeds/Pompey etc model and spent well beyond our capacity to ever pay our debts. We could have had Premiership football at Withdean! We've seen that for big clubs the punishment never fits the crime, fans of other clubs would still feel sorry for us (no matter who we'd shafted), and as we rent the ground we wouldn't have lost it.

However ultimately I think we followed the right course in that it's only ever the big clubs who get away with it. I think we'd have been too small to hide behind a trail of offshore companies, dodgy owners and fictious debts, and ultimately we'd have 'done an Aldershot' rather than a Leeds Pompey or Palace.

You always trot out this line, but how many banks would have even considering lending a small club tens of millions of pounds when they don't even own a ground to put up as collateral?

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I'm wondering if any political influence was exerted on the Cooperative Bank as Hillsborough is one of the designated stadiums in the 2018 World Cup bid.

 

[Brovion]

You always trot out this line, but how many banks would have even considering lending a small club tens of millions of pounds when they don't even own a ground to put up as collateral?

Who said we'd have to borrow on the ground? It could have been borrowed against other assets that directors had or claimed to have: Peruvian oil wells or something. In the good old days of easy credit banks were lending to almost anybody with almost no proof of collateral or proof of ability to repay - and not just in football. No I can't quantify it but you know that's what was happening. Portsmouth's debts were well in excess of what the ground was worth, and I don't think the version of Crystal Palace FC that went bust in the summer even owned Selhurst Park.

Ultimately though we were probably too small to set up the necessary obtuse paper trail. Plus, dare I say it, too decent?

 

[Terry_A_Henfleet]

The fact remains that they have been signing players with the threat of winding up hanging over them. Do you think Neil Mellor is playing for free?

We let 12 players out of contract go, some of whom were VERY high earners.

We sold one player for an undisclosed fee, somewhere between 500k and 1m dependant upon which rumours you hear

We signed 9 free transfers, all of which amount to less wages then the players we released.

So, do you want to get of your high horse?

 

[NicNac]

As a Wednesday fan, I'm frankly astonished and dismayed by some of the reaction posted by Brighton fans on here.

Please, if you have any questions about our situation, fire away and I'll do my best to answer them, but take into account that none of this is the fan's fault and ultimately it is us who will suffer if the club does enter administration or worse.

As Terry says (hi btw ) we have signed 'high profile' players this summer, but we released more than we have signed and one of the players we released was one Mr Francis Jeffers. I think you can guess what kind of wedge he was on.

As for Mellor, well he's only on loan and apparently only agreed to join us because of Irvine. Maybe, just maybe, we're not paying his full wages?

As for the board, there about as much use as a chocolate fire guard. They own 30% of our shares (which given our share spread is actually a majority) so even if we wanted to get rid of them at AGMs or EGMs we can't. There's no one (really) to replace them anyway so we're stuck in limbo.

We did have a ray of hope in Lee Strafford who was Chairman until May, he's now been replaced by Howard Wilkinson who seems to at least have his heart in the right place and a sensible head on his shoulders.

We've just got to hope and pray an investor is crazy enough to buy us now rather than getting us for less than a quarter of the price post administration, or something else equally miraculous happens.

 

[cjd]

We let 12 players out of contract go, some of whom were VERY high earners.

We sold one player for an undisclosed fee, somewhere between 500k and 1m dependant upon which rumours you hear

We signed 9 free transfers, all of which amount to less wages then the players we released.

So, do you want to get of your high horse?

I went into a shop the other day to buy a chocolate bar for 50p. I used to buy a larger bar for a £1, on credit, but I never paid for it.

I explained to the shopkeeper that I had no money to pay him back his £1, so I would now only want the 50p one, so could I have the 50p bar on credit...?

He said ....."f**k off".

I think he was quite right too.