Sheffield Wednesday facing administration

[Herr Tubthumper]

Boring stuff like taxes, bills and creditors got paid while we bumbled along in the the lower reaches of the League. So excuse me if I don't fall over myself with sorrow for a club that has maintained itself in the upper reaches at other peoples (including taxpayers) expense.

But this was not the case. We did exactly the same as Wednesday. We were still getting in players whilst we owed the taxman. The debt to the tax-man got paid, but only after a number of HMRC threats, a few high-court appearances and the eventual sale of a star player.

I am all for clubs paying their debt, but equally I do not wish ill on them or lack sympathy (although I did struggle to suppress the laughter at Pompey)

 

[Hotchilidog]

We were bloody close though, I seem to recall a few high-court appearances for unpaid tax and only the Beeney sale saving the day.

You are quite correct, indeed then the Albion were as guilty as any of the other teams living beyond their means.

I was referring to the DK years, where despite being in dire straits we still continued to pay our bills.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You are quite correct, indeed then the Albion were as guilty as any of the other teams living beyond their means.

I was referring to the DK years, where despite being in dire straits we still continued to pay our bills.

Okay. Fair enough.

 

[Brovion]

But this was not the case. We did exactly the same as Wednesday. We were still getting in players whilst we owed the taxman. The debt to the tax-man got paid, but only after a number of HMRC threats, a few high-court appearances and the eventual sale of a star player.

I am all for clubs paying their debt, but equally I do not wish ill on them or lack sympathy (although I did struggle to suppress the laughter at Pompey)

You are quite correct, indeed then the Albion were as guilty as any of the other teams living beyond their means.

I was referring to the DK years, where despite being in dire straits we still continued to pay our bills.

You are both correct, but the bottom line is - we paid.

 

[Goodfella]

All this let's hope they get 10 points deducted is rather stupid, didn't most of these clubs now threatened with administration support us in our time of need? i for one wouldnt want to go up because another club had been deducted 10 points. It does go to show how this club has been well run since we lost the goldstone for us to have not been in the same predicament.

Good luck Sheffield Wed.

 

[Easy 10]

But this was not the case. We did exactly the same as Wednesday. We were still getting in players whilst we owed the taxman. The debt to the tax-man got paid, but only after a number of HMRC threats, a few high-court appearances and the eventual sale of a star player.

When we had a bunch of thieves, tools and asset-strippers running the club, this was indeed the case.

Since Dick TIGHT took over though, and thank christ he WAS tight, the club has lived depressingly close to within its means (player-wise), hence the last 13-14 years of lower-league dross we've had, save for a couple of seasons in the Championship, which proved to be unsustainable, which is why we've been dossing around at the arse-end of this poxy division since we got relegated.

I suppose we could've done a Wednesday and taken a break from paying people, in order to fund some top signings and maintain ourselves in the Championship a bit longer.

 

[BensGrandad]

All this let's hope they get 10 points deducted is rather stupid, didn't most of these clubs now threatened with administration support us in our time of need? i for one wouldnt want to go up because another club had been deducted 10 points. It does go to show how this club has been well run since we lost the goldstone for us to have not been in the same predicament.

Good luck Sheffield Wed.

The reason that we havent gone into administration at Withdean is because we couldnt as it was never an option and we have been bailed out all along by wealthy fans like TB, Fatboy Slim, Bill Brown etc

Perhaps Wednesday do not have such wealthy fans.

 

[sten_super]

The reason that we havent gone into administration at Withdean is because we couldnt as it was never an option and we have been bailed out all along by wealthy fans like TB, Fatboy Slim, Bill Brown etc

Perhaps Wednesday do not have such wealthy fans.

But surely the fact that they owe money to the bank, rather than to fans, makes it even more important to keep finances on an even keel? I accept entirely that it's all down to the club's good fortune, but we were in a position where the losses were, in a strange way, sustainable, whereas losses made by Wednesday are just resulting in more and more debt being created with a public company with no emotional investment in the club.

 

[Paul Skinback]

Spot on, and shame it had to be a Palace fan saying that. I continue to find it staggering the amount of smug bollocks spouted on here about other clubs' problems. Even with Knight's prudence (and let's have it right, that meant losing LESS money, not making a profit) Bloom was a godsend without which we wouldn't have had the ground and who knows what else besides.

I read this board now and its all 'I'm paying £100 a month to be in the 1901 club', and 'F**k the other clubs, it's their own fault'. Sometimes it's like it's not the same club/group of fans at all. And then these same people will be on here criticising the Prem for being self-serving and money-mad. Incredible.

In the past i have helped you guys out. Shame on me?

I was looking forward (as other football fans will no doubt do) to coming down to Falmer to take a game in/sample the new stadium.

Good post though, a lot of football fans talk bollocks most of the time anyway.

 

[sir albion]

If only we had -10 points when we was in the shite
Christ we lost our stadium and a heck of a lot more,so quiet frankly -10 isn't that bigger deal for wednesday is it?

I bet they was paying players silly wages last season,no sympathy towards any club that goes into admin anymore

 

[cjd]

All this let's hope they get 10 points deducted is rather stupid, didn't most of these clubs now threatened with administration support us in our time of need? i for one wouldnt want to go up because another club had been deducted 10 points. It does go to show how this club has been well run since we lost the goldstone for us to have not been in the same predicament.

Good luck Sheffield Wed.

The Fans United day was so well supported, because Archer was clearly nothing more than an 'asset stripper'. We had, had the ground sold without any future ground-share agreed, and also without informing the fans at the time.

When we were faced with extinction through unpaid tax bills (our own fault through overspending)........no clubs or other fans supported us.

 

[Easy 10]

The reason that we havent gone into administration at Withdean is because we couldnt as it was never an option and we have been bailed out all along by wealthy fans like TB, Fatboy Slim, Bill Brown etc

Perhaps Wednesday do not have such wealthy fans.

I'm sure it was very much "an option" had we splashed cash we didn't have on players.

Wednesday have the benefit of a magnificent stadium, and about 25,000 paying customers every other week coming through their turnstiles. We have an athletics track, and about 6,000 paying customers every other week coming through the turnstiles. We are absolutley TINPOT compared with them, and yet its Wednesday who are in and out of court staving off winding up orders for unpaid tax bills.

Forget our apparently "wealthy fans" bailing us out - the reason why we've stayed out of administration and they havn't isn't just purely down to the pockets of the Directors. Its because the club has, to the best of its ability, operated within its means and paid its way.

Wednesday have not lived with their means. Its just rank bad management by the Wednesday board that have landed them in the shit, and they've STILL got a large, expensively assembled squad of players keeping them in financial hock for the forseeable.

 

[Tooting Gull]

But Easy, our club hasn't paid its way or lived within its means. It just hasn't, pure and simple. We al know the reasons, but it has run at a big loss over several years, and we have been very lucky with directors and benefactors, without whom it would have been even worse.

If we were Leyton Orient (a nice thought) the point would be better, and Hearn can say this stuff because he runs a tight/profitable ship. But we can't.

 

[cjd]

But Easy, our club hasn't paid its way or lived within its means. It just hasn't, pure and simple. We al know the reasons, but it has run at a big loss over several years, and we have been very lucky with directors and benefactors, without whom it would have been even worse.

If we were Leyton Orient (a nice thought) the point would be better, and Hearn can say this stuff because he runs a tight/profitable ship. But we can't.

Of course the club has 'overspent' with regards to income and expenditure.

The 'Overspending' is a result of the Directors of the club, sanctioning the buying of new players. Therefore, they (quite rightly) have borne the brunt of that overspending.

However, with clubs like Sheffield Wednesday, Portsmouth, Cardiff and Leeds, not only did their Directors sanction the 'overspending', but then decided they couldn't afford to bear the brunt of their 'overspending'.

Completely different scenarios to that of the Albion.

Why are people finding this so difficult to understand...?

 

[Easy 10]

But Easy, our club hasn't paid its way or lived within its means. It just hasn't, pure and simple. We al know the reasons, but it has run at a big loss over several years, and we have been very lucky with directors and benefactors, without whom it would have been even worse.

If we were Leyton Orient (a nice thought) the point would be better, and Hearn can say this stuff because he runs a tight/profitable ship. But we can't.

Of course the Directors and benefactors have covered the running costs and made up the shortfalls all the while we have been running at a loss.

But unlike the likes of Wednesday, Palace, Pompey et-al, what they have ALSO done is kept a very tight reign on the playing budget and the wage structure at the club, which is why we've struggled to be competative for a long time now. In other words, the cloth has been cut according to the clubs current circumstances, and they cover the losses whilst still honouring their commitments to the taxman and other creditors. The board keep it at a managable level.

I'm sorry, but you just cannot say the same for these other clubs who have operated at a higher level, with grander stadiums and FAR more bums on seats than we've had to get by on. The squads they've assembled and the salaries they've overcommitted themselves to is whats dragged them to the edge. Who's fault is that ?

 

[Brovion]

But Easy, our club hasn't paid its way or lived within its means. It just hasn't, pure and simple. We al know the reasons, but it has run at a big loss over several years, and we have been very lucky with directors and benefactors, without whom it would have been even worse.

If we were Leyton Orient (a nice thought) the point would be better, and Hearn can say this stuff because he runs a tight/profitable ship. But we can't.

But we HAVE lived within our means, our 'means' being subsidies from directors and benefactors.

I'll grant you it's not an ideal business model, in fact it's a pretty shit one and anywhere else but the crazy world of professional football it would be a terrible way to run a business - but we're not the only club relying on the largesse of wealthy fans and/or investors to make up our trading shortfall. And since the Knight era we've paid our debts and have lived 'within our means' - much to the disgust of some fans who wanted us to spend like crazy.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

I though that there was moves for the club to be bought out by some wealthy consortium possible foreigners. What happened to that?

They were supposed to be taking control before the season started but I think another consortium is in the wings after this lot pulled out. There was talk of a £20M investment allowing Wednesday to wipe out all its debts and push for promotion by signing decent players. Looks like HMRC wants the original £550k plus another £550k so that nothing outstanding is owed instead of accepting staged payments.

 

[philsussex]

According to footballforums.net the Co-op bank have bailed them out.

Wednesday Admin Rumour (Again) - Page 3 - Football Forums

 

[Jim in the West]

But we HAVE lived within our means, our 'means' being subsidies from directors and benefactors.

I'll grant you it's not an ideal business model, in fact it's a pretty shit one and anywhere else but the crazy world of professional football it would be a terrible way to run a business - but we're not the only club relying on the largesse of wealthy fans and/or investors to make up our trading shortfall. And since the Knight era we've paid our debts and have lived 'within our means' - much to the disgust of some fans who wanted us to spend like crazy.

Your last point is so true - there are far too many idiots on this board who constantly carp on at the likes of DK and TB for not spending. Thank the Lord that for the past 13 years this club has been run as soundly as any in the FL, and far more ethically than many. It really hacks me off that the likes of Leicester, Palarse, Pompey, Cardiff, Southampton, and others have been run with little regard for their hard-working suppliers, and have, by and large, got away with it. The 10 point penalty for administration is a pathetic deterrent.

 

[Mackenzie]

Your last point is so true - there are far too many idiots on this board who constantly carp on at the likes of DK and TB for not spending. Thank the Lord that for the past 13 years this club has been run as soundly as any in the FL, and far more ethically than many. It really hacks me off that the likes of Leicester, Palarse, Pompey, Cardiff, Southampton, and others have been run with little regard for their hard-working suppliers, and have, by and large, got away with it. The 10 point penalty for administration is a pathetic deterrent.

When you read that list of football clubs it makes you wonder what the hell palace were playing at. At least those other teams have something to show for their financial 'mismanagement' models.