Saturday - Not good enough

[BigGully]

i agree with the fact that he didnt get the financial backing to keep those players - and that is something that at this moment in time looks like it is going to ruin our season

what he has had though is financial backing to go out there and replace them - whichever way you look at it, he has spent a LOT of money by our clubs standards. far more than mcghee, coppell and possibly adams spent. and those managers also had their best players sold from under them, yet kept getting results

we cannot afford to chuck money at players for them to not help the club progress. at this moment in time, we dont seem to be progressing anywhere from where mcghee left us. the start of next season will effectively be his third in the job, and with the amount of players out of contract he has the chance to have a real clear out. with the time he has had and the money he has spent, i would expect us to be top 6 next year, and if we are in a similar position to where we are now at christmas then it might be time to look for a new man

But Wilkins didnt spend that money, he was unlikely to spend £300,000 on Murray, but I think DK felt he needed to spend big to get himself out of a corner he had put himself in.

 

[Knotty]

But Wilkins didnt spend that money, he was unlikely to spend £300,000 on Murray, but I think DK felt he needed to spend big to get himself out of a corner he had put himself in.

Was Wilkins not involved at all in bringing in Murray?

What corner was DK in?

 

[Scotty Mac]

But Wilkins didnt spend that money, he was unlikely to spend £300,000 on Murray, but I think DK felt he needed to spend big to get himself out of a corner he had put himself in.

so are you trying to say that knight basically bought these players without wilkins wanting to have them? im slightly confused by what your point is

 

[byf]

But Wilkins didnt spend that money, he was unlikely to spend £300,000 on Murray, but I think DK felt he needed to spend big to get himself out of a corner he had put himself in.

Im not sure about that....it did seem a stange signing. But knowing DK and the past...he wouldnt go spending money to prove a point!

 

[Gully]

The club need to do something radical to bring the fans back, especially at a time when the football doesn't appear to be having the desired effect, maybe slashing the season ticket prices like they did at Bradford.

 

[Monsieur Leclerc]

....what he has had though is financial backing to go out there and replace them - whichever way you look at it, he has spent a LOT of money by our clubs standards. far more than mcghee, coppell and possibly adams spent. and those managers also had their best players sold from under them, yet kept getting results

Whilst that is probably true, we are further down the line and we do not have enough experience in the right areas of the pitch, which is finally being addressed. We have been in terminal decline since the draw against Ipswich that secured our Championship status. A few injuries and the midfield is trashed - Could this be solved with a new manager? We are going to have to get the right bodies in and if any of our further dealings had come off in the last transfer window, then things would be looking a lot rosier. We have never quite replaced (first class) Chippy and Oatway IMO - I think Thomson might be the man.

 

[BigGully]

Was Wilkins not involved at all in bringing in Murray?

What corner was DK in?

The main players were Barry Lloyd and Dick Knight funded by Tony Bloom, of course Wilkins was aware of the deal but probably didnt expect it to happen, but it was driven mainly by DK.

Wilkins himself was still reeling from losing key players he really felt could of pushed the club forward.

Lets put it this way, if we had secured Hammond, Savage and O'Callaghan then Murray would not of been on the agenda at that money.

 

[BigGully]

Im not sure about that....it did seem a stange signing. But knowing DK and the past...he wouldnt go spending money to prove a point!

DK did spend Tony Blooms money to prove a point, crazy I know !

 

[Knotty]

The club need to do something radical to bring the fans back, especially at a time when the football doesn't appear to be having the desired effect, maybe slashing the season ticket prices like they did at Bradford.

Slashing season ticket prices will always be an almighty gamble. They could slash them but there is no guarantee that the increased uptake will outweigh the loss of revenue on those season tickets that would have been bought anyway. And if the quality of the footbal doesn't dramatically improve some of the new season ticket holders would not renew a year later. Gamble fails - more money lost.

The quality of football is the only thing that will realy increase gates, but that is not achieved with the flick of a switch or even an injection of large amounts of cash. Plaenty of clubs have spent fortunes on a gamble that hasn't paid off - where are Bradford now?

 

[Scotty Mac]

Whilst that is probably true, we are further down the line and we do not have enough experience in the right areas of the pitch, which is finally being addressed. We have been in terminal decline since the draw against Ipswich that secured our Championship status. A few injuries and the midfield is trashed - Could this be solved with a new manager? We are going to have to get the right bodies in and if any of our further dealings had come off in the last transfer window, then things would be looking a lot rosier. We have never quite replaced (first class) Chippy and Oatway IMO - I think Thomson might be the man.

at times, i thought that the partnership of o'callaghan and hammond was superb in the middle of the park. while there seemed to be a general split in peoples opinions on what o'callaghan and hammond bought to the team, i dont think anyone can argue that we havent missed them since he millwall game when the partnership was broken up

i agree with the majority of that though, and that is why i think wilkins needs this summer. lots of players out of contract, chance to clear out and build a squad that is capable of getting out of this league. if he doesnt do that, and we see 2008-09 as yet another season in mid table, then it may be time to get a man in who can get us out of this league

 

[BigGully]

so are you trying to say that knight basically bought these players without wilkins wanting to have them? im slightly confused by what your point is

If you accept that Wilkins couldnt retain the players already at the club even though he wanted them, do not be too surprised to hear that sometimes DK will sanction deals that Wilkins himself feels do not fit his plans.

Its a fundamental flaw of our club.

 

[Monsieur Leclerc]

at times, i thought that the partnership of o'callaghan and hammond was superb in the middle of the park. while there seemed to be a general split in peoples opinions on what o'callaghan and hammond bought to the team, i dont think anyone can argue that we havent missed them since he millwall game when the partnership was broken up

i agree with the majority of that though, and that is why i think wilkins needs this summer. lots of players out of contract, chance to clear out and build a squad that is capable of getting out of this league. if he doesnt do that, and we see 2008-09 as yet another season in mid table, then it may be time to get a man in who can get us out of this league

Agreed. I finally felt that we would not melt and let the ball run through from their box to ours, with Dean and George. In a way, I think that their success probably contributed to their self belief and them leaving for pastures new.

A mass clear out is needed and the Wilkins revolution can really take shape. Whilst being a 'fan' of Wilkins, I would freely admit that he is not the man to take us forward, if we are not looking good next season - the board must back him though, whilst trying to balance the books and get the fans back. :gulp:

 

[Knotty]

The main players were Barry Lloyd and Dick Knight funded by Tony Bloom, of course Wilkins was aware of the deal but probably didnt expect it to happen, but it was driven mainly by DK.

Wilkins himself was still reeling from losing key players he really felt could of pushed the club forward.

Lets put it this way, if we had secured Hammond, Savage and O'Callaghan then Murray would not of been on the agenda at that money.

If you know all of that is 100% fact, then would be amazed, disappointed and eager to know why this state of affairs exists.

If it just our opinion of what might be fact, you are entitled to it, but I couldn't go along with it.

 

[BigGully]

Maybe the players we have are of a certain standard that no manager could get them playing better as a team. I believe they are doing their best and that means that there are going to be mistakes every game because that best is only of League 1 mid-table standard.

We are never going to know if another manager could do better with those players unless we change the manager. So we make that change and there is no improvement...what then? Do we change the manager every year until we find the miracle-worker?

I did not expect any better than mid-table this season and that view was based on the players, not the manager. We now have two or three new players who might make the difference. Who knows? I simply don't believe that changing the manager now would make the slightest difference and it could make things worse.

For me that is a very good and accurate post.

 

[bristolseagull]

Ah, so which players are telling you that all of the above is true?

its blatantly obvious!

wilkins sits there scratching his head and scribbling on a white board- adams was always up on the touch line barking instructions.

 

[BigGully]

If you know all of that is 100% fact, then would be amazed, disappointed and eager to know why this state of affairs exists.

If it just our opinion of what might be fact, you are entitled to it, but I couldn't go along with it.

By all accounts it is the way DK has always worked, I too am surprised that the Board allow it happen, but they seem quite willing for DK to work in this way.

There are some raised eyebrows and thats about it.

 

[The Large One]

its blatantly obvious!

wilkins sits there scratching his head and scribbling on a white board- adams was always up on the touch line barking instructions.

I've never seen Wilkins touch that white board - in fact, Dean White puts it down by the side of the dugout and doesn't touch it once the game starts. I don't know why they bother bringing it out.

In fact, Wilkins spends FAR too much time screaming to the players when he's in the dugout. And it won't be long before he decks the fourth official one day.

 

[Perry Milkins]

And it won't be long before he decks the fourth official one day.

On what background info do you make that judgement and what will it take for you to raise eyebrows at his managerial ability and style?

 

[Scotty Mac]

I've never seen Wilkins touch that white board - in fact, Dean White puts it down by the side of the dugout and doesn't touch it once the game starts. I don't know why they bother bringing it out.

they used it on saturday to tell the players a change of tactics - and that was around the 89th minute....

 

[The Large One]

On what background info do you make that judgement and what will it take for you to raise eyebrows at his managerial ability and style?

Have you never seen him going apoplectic at anything and everything - especially shit refereeing decisions?

And I am always questioning his managerial style and ability, based on the limited knowledge I (and everyone else outside the playing squad for that matter) have about it. I just choose not to add to the binfests by putting those concerns on here.