[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[peterward]

Perhaps Johnson can release the Russian influence report that he's been hiding ?

And no one will accept sanctioning Oligarchs that few have heard of. He's got to sanction Abramovich for people to accept he is serious about the Oligarchs.

Are your family out ok?

 

[beorhthelm]

Perhaps Johnson can release the Russian influence report that he's been hiding ?

And no one will accept sanctioning Oligarchs that few have heard of. He's got to sanction Abramovich for people to accept he is serious about the Oligarchs.

you're saying we must sanction people based on their fame. so we shouldnt worry about the ones santioned as no ones heard of them?

 

[peterward]

To be fair, at this stage, it is clear that tougher sanction actions are being held back and will be used if and when necessary. I believe it is just a case of not firing off ‘every weapon’ at this stage of the crisis.
If the lunatic Putin is to be influenced by sanctions, they will come through a coordinated effort planned and set in motion by the rest of the world leaders and they will be a lot tougher than those so far enacted.

But what we've done is pathetic, for all this talk of "devastating sanctions", Germany made a massive and hugely costly decision to their economy to bin off Nordstream 2, the US have sanctioned major banks, will sanction a lot of individuals and cut off Russian government ability to raise capital by selling government bonds, that is also pretty substantial first raft.

We sanction 3 people already santioned by US and probably with little wealth here, plus 5 minor banks, a bit like sanctioning the leek building society rather than Barclays or Nat West.

With so much dirty money fuelling the city and London property market it almost feels like a signal to allow the real russian wealth and Tory party supporters a little heads up to move their assets.

As 1 MP put it yesterday "we've bought a pea shooter to a gun fight"

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

What does sanctioning a person mean?

Is it just that they can no longer do business in this country?

 

[A1X]

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[A1X]

What does sanctioning a person mean?

Is it just that they can no longer do business in this country?

As with most things, I believe the answer is "it varies". It can mean that. It can essentially mean anything from doubling their fines for unreturned library books through to barred from entering the country and having all their assets within it seized by the treasury with no compensation. And anything in between.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Are your family out ok?

Yes, thanks for asking. They landed at Luton yesterday. Phew !!

 

[beorhthelm]

...

Germany stopping a pipeline they arent using and didnt pay for is an important statement, but business as usual, having been put on slow-track approval deliberatly since September.

delivering would be banning the export of cars to Russia. not being able to get their new Merc will focus a few minds among the politicans and influencers in Russia.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

As with most things, I believe the answer is "it varies". It can mean that. It can essentially mean anything from doubling their fines for unreturned library books through to barred from entering the country and having all their assets within it seized by the treasury with no compensation. And anything in between.

And this is what i'm trying to understand. What is it that these 3 individuals can't do today that they could do yesterday?

Can it mean having their assets seized? The government surely still has to abide by to the rule of law (stop sniggering). Isn't it just that they won't get a visa to enter a country they were going to enter anyway and they can't set up a business, which they weren't going to do anyway?

And what does it mean to sanction a bank? Is it that they can't trade in this country? They are mostly borderless now anyway surely?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

you're saying we must sanction people based on their fame. so we shouldnt worry about the ones santioned as no ones heard of them?

No, but those named in Parliament need to be.

Politically, for the optics, for people to think Johnson is serious, then he needs to include Abramovich in a wider list of individuals for sanctioning.

 

[Eric the meek]

And this is what i'm trying to understand. What is it that these 3 individuals can't do today that they could do yesterday?

Can it mean having their assets seized? The government surely still has to abide by to the rule of law (stop sniggering). Isn't it just that they won't get a visa to enter a country they were going to enter anyway and they can't set up a business, which they weren't going to do anyway?

And what does it mean to sanction a bank? Is it that they can't trade in this country? They are mostly borderless now anyway surely?

Very valid questions, which, thankfully, we are free to ask in a liberal democracy.

Contrast this with the 400 nodding donkeys of the Duma, the lower house of the Russian parliament, giving a unanimous 400-0 thumbs up to Putin's recognition of the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts.
It is unknown whether any questions were asked during this process.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Very valid questions, which, thankfully, we are free to ask in a liberal democracy.

Contrast this with the 400 nodding donkeys of the Duma, the lower house of the Russian parliament, giving a unanimous 400-0 thumbs up to Putin's recognition of the Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts.
It is unknown whether any questions were asked during this process.

By the way a valid point was made by Bill Browder - sanctioning Duma members is just sanctioning Putin's employees. Forget them - sanctions need to be on the oligarchs.

 

[Billy the Fish]

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As usual Dunt gets it wrong, he must've been itching to go on the attack!

Nord stream 2 isn't even functioning yet, all they've done is pause the process to approve its use. That's not a criticism of Germany, its a sensible first step and I'm sure everyone is using all the tools available to turn the financial screw on Putin.
What he's asking HMG to do in the city is closer to Germany switching off their existing gas supply from Russia. Its not going to happen overnight.

It's almost as if the actual news is boring now so everyone's just reverted back to the usual Tory bashing.

 

[beorhthelm]

And this is what i'm trying to understand. What is it that these 3 individuals can't do today that they could do yesterday?

Can it mean having their assets seized? The government surely still has to abide by to the rule of law (stop sniggering). Isn't it just that they won't get a visa to enter a country they were going to enter anyway and they can't set up a business, which they weren't going to do anyway?

And what does it mean to sanction a bank? Is it that they can't trade in this country? They are mostly borderless now anyway surely?

think that pretty much covers it. assets frozen (within legal limits), goods and services cant be imported/exported, persons cant visit or travel through countries. its a bit of bigger deal for banks as they are locked out of funding.

might be difficult to sanction some well known Russians as they have multiple citizenships, as if they planned for this day.

 

[LamieRobertson]

As usual Dunt gets it wrong, he must've been itching to go on the attack!

Nord stream 2 isn't even functioning yet, all they've done is pause the process to approve its use. That's not a criticism of Germany, its a sensible first step and I'm sure everyone is using all the tools available to turn the financial screw on Putin.
What he's asking HMG to do in the city is closer to Germany switching off their existing gas supply from Russia. Its not going to happen overnight.

It's almost as if the actual news is boring now so everyone's just reverted back to the usual Tory bashing.

 

[nicko31]

See Farage has been on Gebeebies voicing his opinion

https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1495904444776652803

This from the guy that supposedly cares so much about nations sovereignty

Remember the glee of Putin on 23rd June 2016...

 

[amexer]

Appreciate too late now but would NATO agreeing to withdraw troops round Russia avoid war

 

[beorhthelm]

See Farage has been on Gebeebies voicing his opinion

https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1495904444776652803

This from the guy that supposedly cares so much about nations sovereignty

Remember the glee of Putin on 23rd June 2016...

Farage obvs didnt watch or read about Putin's video - NATO membership is a sideshow, its all about Ukraine being a part of Russia.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Appreciate too late now but would NATO agreeing to withdraw troops round Russia avoid war

It would represent an incredible show of faith in Putin's word

 

[A1X]

Truss expecting the footballers to do the work the Government won't do themselves again

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