[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[Thunder Bolt]

Whereas the rest ofEurope is not requiring visas AT ALL.

Very true. I was hoping for that, but with her in charge, we've got no chance. Even this small step, I think is designed to keep her in the job, rather than be forced to resign.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Whereas the rest ofEurope is not requiring visas AT ALL.

Yet Zahawi said the UK is leading the world in it’s support of the Ukraine last night??

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Very true. I was hoping for that, but with her in charge, we've got no chance. Even this small step, I think is designed to keep her in the job, rather than be forced to resign.

Yet Zahawi said the UK is leading the world in it’s support of the Ukraine last night??

I really don’t believe that this is what the majority of the British people want - brexiteers or otherwise!

They had the Ukrainian ambassador (?) on the TV last night saying he didn’t think women with Babes in arms posed an enormous terrorist threat. But then I’m very naive.

 

[jakarta]

I really don’t believe that this is what the majority of the British people want - brexiteers or otherwise!

They had the Ukrainian ambassador (?) on the TV last night saying he didn’t think women with Babes in arms posed an enormous terrorist threat. But then I’m very naive.

Well you say Babes in Arms, might they not be Bombs in Arms?

She must have a pile of Dirt over Boris...

 

[Eric the meek]

http://dilyana.bg/the-pentagon-bio-weapons/

Are you serious?

Who on earth is reading a dodgy Bulgarian website that nobody has heard of, about what the Pentagon does?

More to the point who, having read a dodgy Bulgarian website, uses it as 'evidence' of Pentagon misdeeds?

P.S. Are you and [MENTION=29192]Brighton Lines[/MENTION] a tag team?

 

[Razzoo]

Are you serious?

Who on earth is reading a dodgy Bulgarian website that nobody has heard of, about what the Pentagon does?

More to the point who, having read a dodgy Bulgarian website, uses it as 'evidence' of Pentagon misdeeds?

P.S. Are you and [MENTION=29192]Brighton Lines[/MENTION] a tag team?

No I don't know Brighton Lines. But I posted the link to Carlson. Have you read all that information already and worked out it's all baloney ?
You obviously believe America to be honest, moral and above shameful acts. Despite their problematic track record.

 

[Eric the meek]

No I don't know Brighton Lines. But I posted the link to Carlson. Have you read all that information already and worked out it's all baloney ?
You obviously believe America to be honest, moral and above shameful acts. Despite their problematic track record.

Here's a reminder about the thread title.

'Russia invades Ukraine'. That's Russia. Invasion. Ukraine.

I'm interested in several things, including woodworking tools. Some good ones are actually made in Bulgaria. But I don't post stuff about woodworking tools, because they aren't relevant to the discussion.

Don't try to derail the thread.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Pritti Patel has backed down on the visa issue by saying emergency visas can be issued to Ukrainian refugees, but not until next week.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-ukrainian-refugees-can-apply-26432828

She really is a nasty piece of crap

 

[Triggaaar]

I gave up the moment he suggested that the USA 'encouraged' the invasion !

I tried for longer but I was getting a headache, which I then realised was my braincells committing suicide.

 

[Hugo Rune]

She really is a nasty piece of crap

What is so spiteful about her is the fact that she comes from an immigrant family yet is more determined to keep immigrants out of the country than 90% of the population.

If she was escaping from the Titanic, you could be rest assured that she’d have a lifeboat to herself and anyone attempting to scramble onto it from the sea would be thwarted by the thick end of an oar.

 

[beorhthelm]

Whereas the rest ofEurope is not requiring visas AT ALL.

EU have a visa waiver for Ukrainians since 2017 which might be a factor. doesnt excuse the shitshow from us.

 

[Eeyore]

Are you serious?

Who on earth is reading a dodgy Bulgarian website that nobody has heard of, about what the Pentagon does?

More to the point who, having read a dodgy Bulgarian website, uses it as 'evidence' of Pentagon misdeeds?

P.S. Are you and [MENTION=29192]Brighton Lines[/MENTION] a tag team?

You'll note my original link was to the American Embassy site. But anyway, my wider point.

The one thing we all agree on is that Putin has started a terrible and unjust war. We are likely seeing war crimes committed too. But I think that is all we agree on, apart from the Ukraine's right to defend their land and other nations, including ourselves, to offer as much support as we can to refugees..

The thing I have learnt is that both Russia and The West are now embroiled in a miss-information campaign. I do not trust Russia to tell the truth, but I do believe that if they do offer up truth about any circumstance that might portray others in a bad light, that it will likely be overlooked or dismissed in Western media.

I do not trust America to tell the truth either. We should have learnt that long ago. The Mary Poppins speech by Antony Blinken at the UN made my stomach churn. The US has made a stand against Russian oil, but is suddenly trying to develop alliances with its old foes. It's all about 'interests' while we are fed the thing that will obviously get us onside- the suffering of ordinary folk.

Well, I can feel for their suffering without believing Lavrov and his lies, and also without swallowing the BBC server after having CNN for starters.

This war isn't about goodies and baddies. It's all baddies and competing interests. The UK, US and Russia all have blood on their hands and have done so forever. Whether it's directly, by proxy, or by making a few quid with arms sales to despots.

If Ukraine was in the centre of Africa it would be their war. If Ukraine was Yeman. A Ukrainian who makes a petrol cocktail is a freedom fighter, a Palestinian a terrorist.

So, yes, my heart gets broken when I see these folk in Ukraine and their suffering. I just want it to end. And my head gets enraged when I think about all the sheer hypocrisy and manipulation of all the 'stakeholders' involved.

And yes, it is relevant, because everyday on this wretched planet people are suffering in the same ways as the ones we are seeing now. But whether it reaches your mits is dependent on which news source you use and how it is presented. And there lays the problem.

 

[Razzoo]

Here's a reminder about the thread title.

'Russia invades Ukraine'. That's Russia. Invasion. Ukraine.

I'm interested in several things, including woodworking tools. Some good ones are actually made in Bulgaria. But I don't post stuff about woodworking tools, because they aren't relevant to the discussion.

Don't try to derail the thread.

It's all connected. It is relevant. By the way the idea of propaganda is to reach out and subvert the most people is it not? I don't think an obscure Bulgarian journalist 's article from four years ago is hitting the mark is it?

 

[Baldseagull]

http://dilyana.bg/the-pentagon-bio-weapons/

I hope you read the link I provided to The USA Today fact check article that T. Carlson claimed denied the existence of those labs.

I have had a look at your latest offering, right off the bat, the lady makes a false/unproven claim.
"The US Army regularly produces deadly viruses, bacteria and toxins in direct violation of the UN Convention on the prohibition of Biological Weapons. "

It is not a contravention to produce these in all cases, here is article 1 of the convention, I have underlined the reason I believe her claim to be false/unproven.

Each State Party to this Convention undertakes never in any circumstances to develop, produce, stockpile or otherwise acquire or retain:
(1) microbial or other biological agents, or toxins whatever their origin or method of production, of [I]types and in quantities that have no justification for prophylactic, protective or other peaceful purposes;[/I]
(2) weapons, equipment or means of delivery designed to use such agents or toxins for hostile purposes or in armed conflict

The rest of that page is full of publicly available documents, many from the 50's 60's and 70's, with the UN Convention not being in force till 1975, that do not prove anything sinister. I am not pretending the US is full of angels that do no wrong, and it is possible that have been working outside of the UN Convention on the prohibition of Biological Weapons, just there is no proof on those pages that I can see, although I admit skimming through.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I hope you read the link I provided to The USA Today fact check article that T. Carlson claimed denied the existence of those labs.

I have had a look at your latest offering, right off the bat, the lady makes a false/unproven claim.
"The US Army regularly produces deadly viruses, bacteria and toxins in direct violation of the UN Convention on the prohibition of Biological Weapons. "

It is not a contravention to produce these in all cases, here is article 1 of the convention, I have underlined the reason I believe her claim to be false/unproven.

Each State Party to this Convention undertakes never in any circumstances to develop, produce, stockpile or otherwise acquire or retain:
(1) microbial or other biological agents, or toxins whatever their origin or method of production, of types and in quantities that have no justification for prophylactic, protective or other peaceful purposes;
(2) weapons, equipment or means of delivery designed to use such agents or toxins for hostile purposes or in armed conflict

The rest of that page is full of publicly available documents, many from the 50's 60's and 70's, with the UN Convention not being in force till 1975, that do not prove anything sinister. I am not pretending the US is full of angels that do no wrong, and it is possible that have been working outside of the UN Convention on the prohibition of Biological Weapons, just there is no proof on those pages that I can see, although I admit skimming through.

Well done for taking the time to research.

Propaganda relies on people not actually checking articles that are referenced because they are basically TL;DR.

 

[Eric the meek]

It's all connected. It is relevant. By the way the idea of propaganda is to reach out and subvert the most people is it not? I don't think an obscure Bulgarian journalist 's article from four years ago is hitting the mark is it?

You know, you're right. Your posts ARE relevant.

You are pushing the official Russian line.

'Lavrov repeats claims that US has been developing biological weapons'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60685883 (Scroll down to 10:40)

 

[Razzoo]

You know, you're right. Your posts ARE relevant.

You are pushing the official Russian line.

'Lavrov repeats claims that US has been developing biological weapons'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60685883 (Scroll down to 10:40)

I like to question everything. I have never and will not ever condone the invasion. I just want to understand it. Propaganda and misinformation is everywhere and comes from all angles.

 

[Eeyore]

Well said. Good research.

[MENTION=3357]brighton[/MENTION]Lines, this is the second time you've been caught out.

The first time, you were attempting to prevent the posting of a clip being shown of a hungry Russian soldier being fed by a generous Ukrainian woman, by quoting the Geneva Convention at us.

Now you've taken to posting conspiracy theory crap.

Care to comment?

Sorry, just picked this up.

'The first time, you were attempting to prevent the posting of a clip being shown of a hungry Russian soldier being fed by a generous Ukrainian woman, by quoting the Geneva Convention at us'

Yes I gave the reasons too:

1) Videoing a soldier in this way is a breach of the Geneva Convention
2) Now that soldier is identified, he or his family could be vulnerable to reprisals (What are your thoughts on that ?)

Secondly, I have offered no opinion on the Biological Research thingy, except to say that it concerns me. But if I am charged to trust everything the Americans say and resist then I am a conspirator in some way.

I'm okay with that. At least it means I don't get sheared for my emotions and loyalty every now and then. It's nice to be able to question things. Much of the time I have no conclusions, but I just question. I am not a construct.

My only loyalty is to folk's peace and betterment. Hence I have no loyalty to either Russian or American political leadership.

There is no difference between a suicide bomber and a Stealth bomber. They both kill people for political reasons.

 

[Razzoo]

I hope you read the link I provided to The USA Today fact check article that T. Carlson claimed denied the existence of those labs.

I have had a look at your latest offering, right off the bat, the lady makes a false/unproven claim.
"The US Army regularly produces deadly viruses, bacteria and toxins in direct violation of the UN Convention on the prohibition of Biological Weapons. "

It is not a contravention to produce these in all cases, here is article 1 of the convention, I have underlined the reason I believe her claim to be false/unproven.

Each State Party to this Convention undertakes never in any circumstances to develop, produce, stockpile or otherwise acquire or retain:
(1) microbial or other biological agents, or toxins whatever their origin or method of production, of types and in quantities that have no justification for prophylactic, protective or other peaceful purposes;
(2) weapons, equipment or means of delivery designed to use such agents or toxins for hostile purposes or in armed conflict

The rest of that page is full of publicly available documents, many from the 50's 60's and 70's, with the UN Convention not being in force till 1975, that do not prove anything sinister. I am not pretending the US is full of angels that do no wrong, and it is possible that have been working outside of the UN Convention on the prohibition of Biological Weapons, just there is no proof on those pages that I can see, although I admit skimming through.

Thanks for your thoughtful and measured response. Maybe you are right and everything they are doing in these labs is ethical and legal within the framework of the law. I hope so. Bio weapons being deployed scares me as much as a nuclear missile, if not moreso.

 

[Eric the meek]

Sorry, just picked this up.

'The first time, you were attempting to prevent the posting of a clip being shown of a hungry Russian soldier being fed by a generous Ukrainian woman, by quoting the Geneva Convention at us'

Yes I gave the reasons too:

1) Videoing a soldier in this way is a breach of the Geneva Convention
2) Now that soldier is identified, he or his family could be vulnerable to reprisals (What are your thoughts on that ?)

Secondly, I have offered no opinion on the Biological Research thingy, except to say that it concerns me. But if I am charged to trust everything the Americans say then I am a conspirator in some way.

I'm okay with that. At least it means I don't get sheared for my emotions and loyalty very now and then. It's nice to be able to question things. Much of the time I have no conclusions, but I just question. I am not a construct.

Hmmm.

You wanted to influence the forum, and shut down all clips that contained a Russian soldier. Today, you've repeated your mistake. The clip wasn't in breach of anything. All it contained was a video of a hungry Russian soldier devouring a roll and a hot drink generously provided by a Ukrainian woman. There was no suggestion, or evidence that he was captured, or a POW. That was the your interpretation, which you wanted everyone else to accept.

If you offered no opinion on the 'Biological Research thingy' (which you are now trying to distance yourself from), then why did you post it, and say you were 'genuinely concerned'?

It seems to me that you are now backpedaling.