Rip broken britain

[Goldstone Rapper]

I would say he should be learning English then. I can't imagine many jobs where you don't have to be able to speak at least some English. All I am trying to do is to get people to integrate more, and encouraging them to speak English I would hope would do that.

Yeah, I know where you're coming from. My parents are Chinese and they came to this country as economic migrants in the mid-1970s. When I grew up, I used to berate them for not being able to speak English, particularly my mum, and for not being particularly interested in it either. There is so much that they've missed out on through the language barrier and continue to miss out on. However, what I know now is that it's not that unusual for many Chinese immigrants of that generation to be that way, to work hard and keep themselves to themselves with other Chinese-speakers. Over time, I've learnt to accept that that's the way they are. Even so, while there is a language barrier and some kind of cultural disconnect with British life, there is no sense that the Chinese immigrant and student community would have any truck with the rioting that has happened over the last week. What I'm saying is that, well argued as it is, bringing your point about paying for translation into a discussion about rioting is possibly going off at a tangent. A big percentage of the looters were educated in this country. Yes, they're socially disconnected and yes, many of them don't speak the language they were taught all that great. But getting people to privately pay for their own translation isn't going to solve a thing. The fundamental question, I think, which I haven't heard anyone ask, is how are we going to create a world that works for everyone? A world where, even if you didn't do that well at school, you are related to in terms of your potential, where looting isn't your most reliable way of accumulating material possessions, and where you have a stake in the economic welfare of the country. We know what's happened over the last few days. What are we going to create instead?

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Yeah, I know where you're coming from. My parents are Chinese and they came to this country as economic migrants in the mid-1970s. When I grew up, I used to berate them for not being able to speak English, particularly my mum, and for not being particularly interested in it either. There is so much that they've missed out on through the language barrier and continue to miss out on. However, what I know now is that it's not that unusual for many Chinese immigrants of that generation to be that way, to work hard and keep themselves to themselves with other Chinese-speakers. Over time, I've learnt to accept that that's the way they are. Even so, while there is a language barrier and some kind of cultural disconnect with British life, there is no sense that the Chinese immigrant and student community would have any truck with the rioting that has happened over the last week. What I'm saying is that, well argued as it is, bringing your point about paying for translation into a discussion about rioting is possibly going off at a tangent. A big percentage of the looters were educated in this country. Yes, they're socially disconnected and yes, many of them don't speak the language they were taught all that great. But getting people to privately pay for their own translation isn't going to solve a thing. The fundamental question, I think, which I haven't heard anyone ask, is how are we going to create a world that works for everyone? A world where, even if you didn't do that well at school, you are related to in terms of your potential, where looting isn't your most reliable way of accumulating material possessions, and where you have a stake in the economic welfare of the country. We know what's happened over the last few days. What are we going to create instead?

I don't for a second equate the riots with being able to speak English, that wasn't really my point even though that's the subject of the thread. However, if people can speak English and become more integrated, you'd get fewer of those inner city areas where people from certain origins tend to gather and you end up with a community where English may not be the primary language, and that is only going to make people from outside that community feel excluded - not a recipe for harmony.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

I don't for a second equate the riots with being able to speak English, that wasn't really my point even though that's the subject of the thread. However, if people can speak English and become more integrated, you'd get fewer of those inner city areas where people from certain origins tend to gather and you end up with a community where English may not be the primary language, and that is only going to make people from outside that community feel excluded - not a recipe for harmony.

There's always going to be difference in the world, of language, clothes, social attitudes etc. I don't wish to underplay that for many people it feels like it's inevitably a disconcerting and alienating experience to be around people that are different to them, especially if the others all speak a particular language and they don't! (Maybe English speakers in such a situation could get a free translation service!) However, feeling disconcerted to the situation is only one response open to English speaking people. Being OK with difference, such as with language, when it is encountered, would be way more empowering. If English speakers encountered another language being spoken, and the fact was just like water off a duck's back, what would that make available for them? What if they could bring fascination to the encounter rather than just fear?

If I lived in an area where English-speaking is a minority pursuit, I might have to give up the notion that English is always the 'correct' language to speak in all situations, just because I happen to be in England. If I want easier communication, I may have to try to learn the language that is the majority in their neighbourhood. This may be painful to the ego of an English speaking native (and to me as I was never much good at learning languages in school!) and yet it would really serve the people who did it as what it will make available is greater connectedness to everyone else. By the way, this post isn't an anti-English language post. The English language is beautiful and I would encourage all immigrants to this country to speak it as that will serve them too.

But the big deal is this: We want people to cross over to us. How prepared are we to cross over to them?

 

[User removed 4]

Knee jerk reactions which are predictable. Yes there are problems in society but the country is not broken. Reports were that there were groups of about 100/200 youths causing trouble at various points. Let's be generous and round that up to 1000 at each area. How many flashpoints were there, 10 maybe 15 in total. 15,000. That's 15,000 out of a population of 65,000,000 ie 0.023% of the population. Take an Albion crowd of 22,500 and apply the same percentage. That's about 5 people behaving like complete tools. Would that make you consider the whole of brighton' s support are tools?

Courts need to deal with the rioters and looters harshly and next time the Police need to arrest them when they are looting but for f*** sake, don't judge the rest of society on an extremely small minority bunch of selfish greedy pricks.

Seriously, what will it take to extract your head from your arse ?

 

[User removed 4]

You are simply repeating the daily drip-drip of right-wing tabloid phrases and over-generalisations you are being fed, and actually think you came up with them yourself. The riots you see on TV are not representative of what the majority of people, or the majority of young people, are up to in this country.

No, but in urban areas it's a sizeable minority.

 

[User removed 4]

And minimum wage only gets you a few more quid than the dole gives you, let alone few prospects or job security. I mean lets be honest there really isn't much of an incentive is there?

This attitude really does encapsulate whats wrong with these people.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No, but in urban areas it's a sizeable minority.

Where have you been for the past few days? You're going to be very busy catching up and replying to everything.

 

[User removed 4]

Where have you been for the past few days? You're going to be very busy catching up and replying to everything.

took my kids away for a week, can you imagine my frustration at having no computer access during all of the aforementioned shenanigans

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

took my kids away for a week, can you imagine my frustration at having no computer access during all of the aforementioned shenanigans

I did wonder

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

took my kids away for a week, can you imagine my frustration at having no computer access during all of the aforementioned shenanigans

Should have got the kids to go looting for you then.

 

[User removed 4]

What if it's a recent economic immigrant with no children who pays taxes? He could claim that he regularly contributes income tax that pays for schools which he doesn't use, and the dole for lots of native British people, even though he has never drawn from it himself. There would many other services that he helps to pay towards but doesn't use. Why would you begrudge him making use of a translator, which his taxes have helped paid towards, that will enable him to access an essential service such as the NHS?

The economic migrant shouldnt have been allowed in if he couldnt speak english, chances are that without speaking english he's earning minimum wage, and when you consider the amount it will cost to school his kids , his social housing , his translation services, not to mention any medical care he may requie, he most certainly wouldnt be paying his way, if you really want i can provide a link to an article which backs this up, and no, it' s not from the daily mail.

 

[User removed 4]

Yes, and it's very sad for us who remember the 1950s and early 1960s when it seemed to be as perfect a society as you could get: free health care; dole if you were on hard times; housing if you couldn't afford to buy your own; free education from primary school to university with free Grammar schools to prepare those more able for university; the apprenticeship system for plumbers, electricians, hairdressers, etc; more integrated immigrants of all faiths and colours; a pride in being British or in living in Britain. It's a very different country now.

Then along came "WOY" jenkins and his advocation of the permissive society.

 

[BadFish]

This attitude really does encapsulate whats wrong with these people.

Yes it does!

 

[BadFish]

The economic migrant shouldnt have been allowed in if he couldnt speak english, chances are that without speaking english he's earning minimum wage, and when you consider the amount it will cost to school his kids , his social housing , his translation services, not to mention any medical care he may requie, he most certainly wouldnt be paying his way, if you really want i can provide a link to an article which backs this up, and no, it' s not from the daily mail.

Yes please.

 

[Sloe Joe]

Nothing to do with racism at all, although it might appear so, just the resonsibility or otherwise of a scumbag upbringing from their scumbag parents who are responsible.
It is they who should be equally sentenced and have ALL benefits withdrawn IMMEDIATELY and MADE TO PAY FOR ALL DAMAGE CAUSED.
Simple, fair justice don't you think.

 

[User removed 4]

Yes please.

Migration Watch UK - Economic - Economic Impacts of Immigration to the UK (1.29)

 

[BadFish]

Migration Watch UK - Economic - Economic Impacts of Immigration to the UK (1.29)

Ta, although i must say I don't see anything backing up what you say, although I haven't read the whole document can you cut and paste it?

Did find this bit quite interesting though.

Since 1997 three-quarters of employment created in the UK economy has been taken by immigrants (4.4)

 

[HovaGirl]

Then along came "WOY" jenkins and his advocation of the permissive society.

Woy Jenkins didn't really make an impact until the early 1980s, notwithstanding his stint as Chancellor of the Exchequer in the 60s. The permissive society started twenty years previously. Roy Jenkins actually missed his chance. The more right-wing (that is, not so leftie as Michael Foot) rump of the Labour party defected and started their own, brand-new party in 1981, called the SDP (Social Democratic Party). I happily joined it and became an activist. It really was the voice of the future, at the time. And then Woy spoilt it all, by declaring he wanted to marry the Liberals. That was the end of the SDP which was swallowed by the affable David Steele's band of Liberals.

 

[1066familyman]

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[HovaGirl]

The economic migrant shouldnt have been allowed in if he couldnt speak english, chances are that without speaking english he's earning minimum wage, and when you consider the amount it will cost to school his kids , his social housing , his translation services, not to mention any medical care he may requie, he most certainly wouldnt be paying his way, if you really want i can provide a link to an article which backs this up, and no, it' s not from the daily mail.

My Dad couldn't speak a word of the English lingo when he turned up in the UK in 1941. But he was fluent about 6 months later. His aunt, on the other hand, only learnt enough English to fill in the necessary forms and watch TV. Otherwise, she lived in her enclave in Ealing. Myself, I've been in Greece for the past decade, and couldn't speak a word when I first came here. Neither could my spouse. We've had lessons, and done our best, but we must have "Anglo-Saxon" stamped, invisibly, on our foreheads, because Greeks take one look at us, and decide to show off their English.