Refinery strikes

[Questions]

A totally pointless and in fact ILLEGAL strike is taking place.

Total are a French company who invite tenders from many different countries and it just so happens that the British firms lost out this time............ thats how it goes. The winners want to employ their own people who are Italian and Portuguese.
British firms do the same abroad. There is a free market in Europe nowadays in case people had forgotten. We should be thankful that Total have brought so much employment over here in the first place or should we just have British companies employing British workers.
Bye bye Honda, Toyota, Ford, Vauxhall etc etc.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

The way I tend to see this is that when things are going well we were happy as anything that the "johny foreignor" was coming over to the UK to do the jobs that the indigenous population wouldn't or couldn't do.

In the 50's and 60's this was people from the Carribean and the 70's people from africa ( mostly asians kicked out by african countries like Kenya and Uganda), these people were employed in jobs like the NHS and public transport etc and in teh case of asians, local businesses and shops as well as the mills etc.

In the late 20 C you had the migrants from Europe allowed by the new eastern european countries admitted to the EEC.....again apart from the odd moan people didnt really worry.

Problem is now...there is a huge recession and jobs are scarce. Lots of the educated eastern europeans have moved on, however because of the "fair play" attitude we have in this country, ideas like competative tendering etc still exist and we are finding that foreign companies ( who lets face it own huge swathes of our economy, water power cars steel etc) are able to win contracts.

the problem is that is all well and good if they employ local workers, BUT they dont. As we did in the middle east, they bring in their own labour force...and now there is little or no work around we dont like it! You can understand both sides in this, however to blame the government is daft as this is a problem that Europe has had for years now....its just coming home to us in the uK now.

 

[The Spanish]

In the late 20 C you had the migrants from Europe allowed by the new eastern european countries admitted to the EEC.....again apart from the odd moan people didnt really worry

f***ing hell you are not mates with many tradesmen then i take it. or is that included in the 'odd moan', or do we lump it in with the middle class disgust at tradespeople earning a fair wedge that helped fuel the ripping the arse out of many peoples livings. market forces and the free movement of labour i suppose.

just as well poles and latvians cant do wanky sales jobs or work in the media or this board would take a far different view.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

In the late 20 C you had the migrants from Europe allowed by the new eastern european countries admitted to the EEC.....again apart from the odd moan people didnt really worry

f***ing hell you are not mates with many tradesmen then i take it. or is that included in the 'odd moan', or do we lump it in with the middle class disgust at tradespeople earning a fair wedge that helped fuel the ripping the arse out of many peoples livings. market forces and the free movement of labour i suppose.

just as well poles and latvians cant do wanky sales jobs or work in the media or this board would take a far different view.

I work in IT and our firm is one of the most culturaly diverse companies I have ever seen.

we have no problems whatsoever

 

[The Spanish]

i work in shipping mate i trump you and take the pot. please dont lecture me on culturally diverse workforces until you have tried to keep 15 philippinos from killing their colleagues.

 

[KNC]

Yeah - I'm with you...Who needs the Unions and their silly ideals like a minimum wage, safety in the work place, allowing women to work and financially supporting members who've lost their jobs because of the ultra rich fat cats have f*cked up AGAIN.

And while we're at it...Why not closedown schools and make children earn a living like in the good old days when they used to be up chimneys...

Yeah - What have the Trade Unions ever done for us

Ah! Conservertism

 

[simonsimon]

"Ford had the right idea (I'm not sure if they do this any more); he paid his workers above the going rate, and provided them with staff rooms, etc and said they couldn't join a union as a condition of employment."Quoted by sten super

This is the same Henry Ford who had his employees shot and killed by Ford security staff.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

i work in shipping mate i trump you and take the pot. please dont lecture me on culturally diverse workforces until you have tried to keep 15 philippinos from killing their colleagues.

I wasn't lecturing you at all.

i was merely pointing out that the place I worked was culturally diverse

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Strikes just drag the country down. While we were striking and on our arses after the second world war, coutries like Japan and Germany were working hard and overtook us. We used to be the richest country in the world, but because of the stupid strikes we lost all our industry and now our country is finished.

What a crock of shit. Germany and Japan were f***ed after the war, so the Yanks invested heavily to stop the spread of Communism, their economies were helped with massive investment.
Ours? Paying off the massive war debt we owed to the Yanks. The UK spent more than any other country per capita on fighting in the Second World War.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

A totally pointless and in fact ILLEGAL strike is taking place.

Total are a French company who invite tenders from many different countries and it just so happens that the British firms lost out this time............ thats how it goes. The winners want to employ their own people who are Italian and Portuguese.
British firms do the same abroad. There is a free market in Europe nowadays in case people had forgotten. We should be thankful that Total have brought so much employment over here in the first place or should we just have British companies employing British workers.
Bye bye Honda, Toyota, Ford, Vauxhall etc etc.

Who all employ a majority who are British workers in their factories.

 

[The Spanish]

I wasn't lecturing you at all.

i was merely pointing out that the place I worked was culturally diverse

what does culturally diverse mean? cross class? multi ethnic? f*** all?

this is not a race issue until the idiots turn up and try to make it one.

you threw in what industry you worked in and it got my back up. but sorry for that. most multicultural workforces I have been in have been simmering with problems but they are mens jobs with disparate pay rates due to the economics of a global workforce and genuinely poverty driven people undercutting established workforces (like this example we are talking about) not spotty geek nerd techy ones full of boffins who will relatively thrive irrespective of their country of origin. how likely is the IT industry to have conflict based on culture or race apart from when you get the hump with the call centre?

hardly a good example.not having a pop mate but you do set yourself up.

 

[simonsimon]

"Wasn't that clown "Red Robbo" involved with the car industry in Coventry? Look what he managed to do for the British car worker!" Quoted by pork pie

There was another "red robbo" employed by NISSAN UK @ Durrington.

They went out of business aswell.

 

[The Spanish]

What a crock of shit. Germany and Japan were f***ed after the war, so the Yanks invested heavily to stop the spread of Communism, their economies were helped with massive investment.
Ours? Paying off the massive war debt we owed to the Yanks. The UK spent more than any other country per capita on fighting in the Second World War.

excellent post southover. shows up what a slap in the face to our grandparents who worked so hard to get this country back on its feet after fighting for our futures don quixote just gave them. there are some f***ing ungrateful and clueless idiots on here.

 

[DJ Leon]

what does culturally diverse mean? cross class? multi ethnic? f*** all?

this is not a race issue until the idiots turn up and try to make it one.

you threw in what industry you worked in and it got my back up. but sorry for that. most multicultural workforces I have been in have been simmering with problems but they are mens jobs with disparate pay rates due to the economics of a global workforce and genuinely poverty driven people undercutting established workforces (like this example we are talking about) not spotty geek nerd techy ones full of boffins who will relatively thrive irrespective of their country of origin. how likely is the IT industry to have conflict based on culture or race apart from when you get the hump with the call centre?

hardly a good example.not having a pop mate but you do set yourself up.

You what? So no undercutting happens in IT because of cheaper pay rates abroad? Not even, say, INDIA? It's not, as you clearly think, just call centres that get moved to the sub-continent.

Can't be botehred to argue with the rest - it's mostly nonsense.

 

[ewe2]

intoThe law only works when agreement is reached........workers from other countries taking uk jobs is such a big issue.This will bring I am afraid this recession into all our living rooms

 

[macky]

BBC NEWS | UK | Refinery strikes spread across UK

Refinery strikes spread across UK

Refinery worker: 'British people are being put aside'
Strikes have been breaking out across the UK in support of a mass walkout by energy workers in Lincolnshire angry at the use of foreign workers.

Hundreds are gathered for the third day of the original strike at Lindsey Oil Refinery after owner Total gave a £200m contract to an Italian firm.

They have been joined by strikers in Grangemouth, in central Scotland, Aberthaw, in South Wales, and Teesside.

"Sympathy strikes... are spreading rapidly," said the BBC's Danny Savage.

Hundreds of striking workers are holding a mass meeting at the Lincolnshire refinery.

Total said there would be "no direct redundancies" at the refinery at North Killingholme as a result of the contract for the Italian company. It's been a kettle ready to boil and the lid has blown off now

Kenny, protester


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Early on Friday around 700 workers at the Grangemouth Oil Refinery walked out in solidarity with the Lincolnshire strikers.

South Wales Police are attending a protest at Aberthaw Power Station, which organisers said involved around 50 people peacefully rallying outside the main gate.

Meanwhile Cleveland Police have confirmed that around 400 demonstrators are now involved in a protest at all four gates of the former ICI complex at Wilton on Teesside.

And some unconfirmed reports have suggested that up to 200 people have gathered outside the Corus plant near Redcar.

One protester at the Lincolnshire plant, called Kenny, said British workers should have priority of access to jobs.

He said the issue was a growing one for many industries.

"It's been a kettle ready to boil and the lid has blown off now."

Total bosses said the Italian firm IREM, which employs a specialist workforce, had won the contract to construct the new HDS-3 unit at the Lindsey plant, after a tendering process.

More than 300 of the Italian firm's workers have been brought in to do the work.

'Moral indignation'

Joint leader of the Unite union, Derek Simpson, said workers felt powerless.

"You can understand the moral indignation as well as the industrial concern that people are expected to have skills, but be unemployed and watch foreign workers [be employed] who have got more privilege because they're not barred from these contracts.

"The only role that we have is to pay the electric bills from the power stations that they build. No-one can stand aside and say that that is any way justified."

In a statement, Total said: "We recognise the concerns of contractors but it is important to note that there will be no direct redundancies as a result of this contract being awarded.

"We have been a major local employer for 40 years and have always enjoyed a good relationship with our staff and contractors.

"We are disappointed they have taken this action and we hope the situation will be resolved as soon as possible and the contractors return to work."







I don't want to dismiss the workers that are on strike as xenophobic; having listened to them on radio 5 this morning that is clearly not the case. They are saying that an Italian firm has won a contract from Total and is now refusing to employ any British workers. Apparently the reason for this is that they have undercut the British firm that bid for the contract by braking an agreement on wages to be paid to workers, and are thus employing a load of Italians at below this agreed wage.

I have a lot of sympathy with the workers, as this Italian firm has clearly not followed the rules. What I can't believe is that the labour market in these industries is so protected that unions are allowed to have a say on the tendering process, by negotiating an 'acceptable' wage for the workers. Surely these firms should be able to pay their workers whatever they want; if they can get workers in, and can complete the work, for the price that they agree, what is the problem with that?

what a prat you are
bloody right lats looks after ourselfs first

 

[macky]

Yep, that's pretty much what I'm saying. I'm afraid that this thread will reveal me as a raving Tory. I don't believe in Unions and am essentially (even after everything that has happened) a free marketeer.

u forgot to mention prick

 

[beorhthelm]

thing is, this is an utterly stupid fight to pick. the government cannot force a foreign company to employ UK citizens. the strikers cannot win, they will have to back down eventually. i dont hear anyone calling for Total to be kicked out of the country yet they must employ hundreds of French personel in the UK. maybe they should, along with all the other foreign companies. that'll fix it.

 

[ewe2]

...This is serious 5 shops have closed in my town since xmas.......any falling out ,and it seems point scoring,ref thr argus at this moment is inappropriate !!!

 

[Winker]

The government will be so desperate to appease their voters in these Labour heartlands that they will instruct the local councils to create more and more non-jobs like 'Italian guest worker co-ordinators', 'Floating hotel safety engineers' and 'Oil refinery cultural diversity officers' to employ the British workers.