Refinery strikes

[sten_super]

I have taken some stick on here for what I accept are fairly extreme views. However while I am quite happy to have my argument debated and to be told I am wrong, I am not willing to accept unwarranted abuse. The irony of one poster, who resorted to calling me names rather than trying to actually tackle the argument, subsequently accusing me of child-like behaviour is pretty impressive.

I have not, thankfully, ever been made unemployed. I do not accept however that this in some way means that my opinions are less valid. You may do, that is up to. If I ever did lose my job, I would take it upon myself to search for a new one, and not rely upon a Union to either find me a new job, or ensure that the company that employs me is forced to keep me on when they are not in a position to do so. I believe in a free market, and unions interfere with the operation of a free market, ergo I am against them.

As I said in the OP, I have a great deal of sympathy for these workers that are potentially going to lose their jobs. At the same time, however, this project will create jobs for people who would presumably be out of work in Italy; the net effect is the same, it is just happening somewhere else on the continent.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Had a chuckle this morning as 4 Portuguese guys (contractors who should have been at LOR but are keeping a low profile) got on the bus at the town centre heading for Cleethorpes. Kiddies at the back of the bus thought they were Pakistanis because of their complexions and couldn't work out why they were wearing beanie hats instead of turbans.

 

[binky]

you will have to ask the IT boys they will be glad to help if they have not been outsourced....

i talk ill informed shit

Goto 10

i am a clueless defensive nob with no coherent arguments about the british labour market

Goto 20

oops i am unemployed due to my own smugness and lack of transferable skills and complacency

please insert chuckie egg tape



please restart your computer press yes/no/cancel to rid your pc of these utter morons

Wow.
You have real issues with people more intelligent than you don't you?
What happened? Did a PC support bod find your porn stash once?

For you to imply that the wholesale outsourcing of IT jobs over the past decade and more is trivial, and not to be compared with the loss of REAL jobs, exposes a fundamental misunderstanding of both the nature of IT, and the global marketplace.

I still work in IT, having, (more by luck than judgment), managed to finesse my skills to those which are in need. Many of my friends and colleagues who have been made redundant over the past ten years have never found meaningful work in IT again.
You are correct. Their skillset was not transferable. Indian workers, bussed in to Brighton, sleeping 12 people in a three bedroom terrace, given £1.50 a day subsitence allowence here, and paid £50 per month in rupees into an Indian bank account; undercut their market rate.

Please tell me why this is funny.

 

[clapham_gull]

Brown Has caused this problem.

Not sure it's even is fault this time, wasn't him that took us into Europe.

There was a long programme on he radio tonight about it, quite a complex issue it seems.

To answer Lord Bracknells point above, it appears that the company are exploiting a ruling made by the European Court of Justice that allows a company to quite happily take a group of workers (from another European Country) and simply transplant the lot into another area on lower wages than the existing workforce.

This in itself goes against protections that were supposed to be in place to stop this happening.

Not very "joined up" it seems.

To put it in perspective there are far more Brits working in EU countries, that EU workers working here (believe it or not)

If a government really was able to make "British Jobs For British Workers" and other countries in the EU did the same, we'd actually end up worse off.

 

[bhaexpress]

I have taken some stick on here for what I accept are fairly extreme views. However while I am quite happy to have my argument debated and to be told I am wrong, I am not willing to accept unwarranted abuse. The irony of one poster, who resorted to calling me names rather than trying to actually tackle the argument, subsequently accusing me of child-like behaviour is pretty impressive.

I have not, thankfully, ever been made unemployed. I do not accept however that this in some way means that my opinions are less valid. You may do, that is up to. If I ever did lose my job, I would take it upon myself to search for a new one, and not rely upon a Union to either find me a new job, or ensure that the company that employs me is forced to keep me on when they are not in a position to do so. I believe in a free market, and unions interfere with the operation of a free market, ergo I am against them.

As I said in the OP, I have a great deal of sympathy for these workers that are potentially going to lose their jobs. At the same time, however, this project will create jobs for people who would presumably be out of work in Italy; the net effect is the same, it is just happening somewhere else on the continent.

The fact that you've never been unemployed is the point. If you had you would have a much better idea of what it's like and the pressures that come with that situation. If people call you smug, as I would, then it's entirely deserved. You come across as a pompous oaf actually and so it's hardly surprising that you provoke a harsh reaction from some quarters as a lot of people would tell you you don't know what you're talking about. I am in that camp for a start.

 

[bhaexpress]

Wow.

For you to imply that the wholesale outsourcing of IT jobs over the past decade and more is trivial, and not to be compared with the loss of REAL jobs, exposes a fundamental misunderstanding of both the nature of IT, and the global marketplace.

As I have have worked in IT for thirty seven years now I dispute that statement. A lot of the work I used to do was in call centres here so it has had a negative influence on my employment. However, I don't blame the government as such but I do have an issue with a number of employees who affect my industry and others (my optician has the same issue). That issue is with all the Australians, New Zealanders, South African and Zimbabwean people now working here. The first two can get working Visas for up to four years here whereas to the best of my knowledge we do not have a reciprocal arrangement with their countries, they make a lot more money here than back home they tell me. The latter two are usually whites who have left their place of birth because they know it's not such a great place to live anymore. These people have a far more detrimental effect on employment in my industry than any refugee or Eastern European community.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

I have taken some stick on here for what I accept are fairly extreme views. However while I am quite happy to have my argument debated and to be told I am wrong, I am not willing to accept unwarranted abuse. The irony of one poster, who resorted to calling me names rather than trying to actually tackle the argument, subsequently accusing me of child-like behaviour is pretty impressive.

I have not, thankfully, ever been made unemployed. I do not accept however that this in some way means that my opinions are less valid. You may do, that is up to. If I ever did lose my job, I would take it upon myself to search for a new one, and not rely upon a Union to either find me a new job, or ensure that the company that employs me is forced to keep me on when they are not in a position to do so. I believe in a free market, and unions interfere with the operation of a free market, ergo I am against them.

As I said in the OP, I have a great deal of sympathy for these workers that are potentially going to lose their jobs. At the same time, however, this project will create jobs for people who would presumably be out of work in Italy; the net effect is the same, it is just happening somewhere else on the continent.

I have never been made unemployed, but unlike you I recognise the positive contribution that the trade union movement has made to British industry over the last few hundred years.
Equal pay for women, equal rights for workers with disabilities, improved health and safety in the workplace, the end of the exploitation of children in the workplace, I could go on and on.
Trade unions are not the evil industry destroyers that you and your free market supporting buddies would have us all think.
Without the contribution of the trade union movement to British society the rights that you an I now enjoy in the workplace may not exist or if they did exist they would be extremely diluted in comparison to what we have today.
These basic rights have made working in Britain better for the ordinary person, this has made Britain competitive with the rest of Europe and the world since the start of the industrial revolution and since the start of the trade union movement.

 

[macky]

I have taken some stick on here for what I accept are fairly extreme views. However while I am quite happy to have my argument debated and to be told I am wrong, I am not willing to accept unwarranted abuse. The irony of one poster, who resorted to calling me names rather than trying to actually tackle the argument, subsequently accusing me of child-like behaviour is pretty impressive.

I have not, thankfully, ever been made unemployed. I do not accept however that this in some way means that my opinions are less valid. You may do, that is up to. If I ever did lose my job, I would take it upon myself to search for a new one, and not rely upon a Union to either find me a new job, or ensure that the company that employs me is forced to keep me on when they are not in a position to do so. I believe in a free market, and unions interfere with the operation of a free market, ergo I am against them.

As I said in the OP, I have a great deal of sympathy for these workers that are potentially going to lose their jobs. At the same time, however, this project will create jobs for people who would presumably be out of work in Italy; the net effect is the same, it is just happening somewhere else on the continent.

i posted what thought of you
you then run off t othe mods t omake a complaint
as another poster said you come across as a smug so so
you questioned my inteligence much worse tha what a called you
and i still stand by what i caled you
but now i think you area lot worse than i originaly thought
not the kind of bloke i wouold have in my company
now go and take picture of kids playingh on the grass that you can send to the council
i know exacty what kind of person you are
take that to the mods

 

[NMH]

iam not going to read all 5 pages of thid thread but i will put in my opinion.
firstly if the employees are from the eec then no problem.

secondly ALL employees employed in britain should be able to speak and read english so that they can follow all health and safety rules.

it makes sense to me that everyone at work should easily be able to follow simple rules in the language of the country that they work in so that they dont have or cause an accident.

I have taken the CSCS test that is required in order to work in the construction industry, and foreign workers are offered the test in their own language.

There are whole gangs of non-English speaking workers here, but lord knows what happens if someone shouts "look out mate, that crane's load is about to fall on your head", or "don't walk over there, the scaffolding has not yet been secured beneath the planks and it's a hundred feet down to solid concrete".

They can't even understand warning signs and cautions.

 

[NMH]

i posted what thought of you
you then run off t othe mods t omake a complaint
as another poster said you come across as a smug so so
you questioned my inteligence much worse tha what a called you
and i still stand by what i caled you
but now i think you area lot worse than i originaly thought
not the kind of bloke i wouold have in my company
now go and take picture of kids playingh on the grass that you can send to the council
i know exacty what kind of person you are
take that to the mods

Mentalist alert !!



Really though, the binfestery is rife on this thread - what about the workers!