[Albion] Potter was a terrible coach at Swansea too

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I was interested in hearing why the poster in question is on a crusade to back Potter and yet wanted the best manager we have had in the last 40 odd years out after suffering half a bad season

Sorry mate, not following you. Have I misinterpreted who you were criticising? I thought it was the chap who supports Potter. Apologies if I misunderstood.

 

[Jim in the West]

Hasenhüttl had many wins under his belt before then though - and had guided the side away from a relegation battle. He gave fans and the board something to believe in. A reason to back him.

Also, I doubt a single Southampton fan said they wanted Hasenhüttl before he was appointed, so by the logic shown by the potty Potter fans above, Saints really should have stuck with Mark Hughes.

Hassenhuttl took over when Saints were in 17th in 18/19. They finished that season in 16th. Potter effectively took over BHA in exactly the same position (we were 17th at the end of 18/19), and we finished in 15th in 19/20. I think the analogy is quite good - Potter gave us something to believe in in his first season, but we've got to a point where some doubt has crept in (as it did with Saints when they lost 9-0 last season - and although results improved after that, it wasn't a quick miracle turnaround).

 

[Icy Gull]

Could you give me a list of left backs which meet the criteria and budget, work permit availability, player attitude on and off the pitch?

Of course you can’t so stop talking utter bollocks. It takes huge resources to find players and managers surely your not that thick.

You need to get some anger management therapy.

As it happens yes yes I could give you some suggestions for a LB, whether they fit the bill or the budget or the no dickheads policy or not I don’t know but I can’t think of a single manager other than Eddie Howe, and that’s a no from me

Stop being angry for a moment and give me your suggestion for a new manager, who may or may not fit our budget but has the same ethos, and is available.

 

[Stato]

Josh King for one. Sure, he'd want paying the going rate, but wouldn't anyone with the qualities that we need? Maybe we could unload a couple of players in the opposite direction to sweeten the deal

The Josh King who scored less goals than Neal Maupay did last season? Who has a worse goals per game ratio than Maupay both over his career and in games played in the Premier League? Who hasn't yet scored a league goal this season for a Bournemouth side currently sitting third in the Championship? Who is four years older than Maupay? Who has been linked with several Premier League sides for the cost of about £15 million? Who would want a contract with substantial wages and would have little or no sell on value?

I'm not saying that Josh King is a bad striker. He is perfectly adequate and will likely score a few goals for someone. However he, and many players like him that will be suggested, are not the magic bullet. They are not going to change our season by doing the job for us that Danny Ings does for Southampton, or Jamie Vardy does for Leicester. Those type of players are very rare and you generally either find them young or you buy them for vast amounts of money. More money than we can currently afford, both in transfer fees and wages.

 

[London Irish]

Hassenhuttl took over when Saints were in 17th in 18/19. They finished that season in 16th. Potter effectively took over BHA in exactly the same position (we were 17th at the end of 18/19), and we finished in 15th in 19/20. I think the analogy is quite good - Potter gave us something to believe in in his first season, but we've got to a point where some doubt has crept in (as it did with Saints when they lost 9-0 last season - and although results improved after that, it wasn't a quick miracle turnaround).

But what if, and hear me out on this, Potter isn't Hassenhuttl

 

[vagabond]

He doesn't need to reply. His questioner has chosen to disregard the fact the OP is a serial offender in his crusade to get Potter out, and has made silly po-faced comments to someone who recognises this. Why should he reply? There are existant threads bemoaning Potter's performance. The scorn is about Desperate's need to start yet another thread on it. I say that, as I noted earlier, as someone who considers that if Bloom sacks Potter today I won't even blink.

Well said [emoji106]

 

[Icy Gull]

But what if, and hear me out on this, Potter isn't Hassenhuttl

Going completely off topic for a moment, was it you that suggested Jayden Bogle a couple of years ago? He does look like a decent PL player these days

 

[Guinness Boy]

I have yet to see a replacement manager suggested who would be able to step in and improve us whilst not needing to spend a fortune doing it. I guess it’s not your job to make suggestions though, would I be right?

Kinda weakens the argument for getting shot of him imo. It needs to be someone with experience at this level too, surely. Or do we just take another punt with half a season left? Not a single sensible and realistic suggestion made by the outters, that I am aware of, which tells it’s own story. Change for change’s sake.

Ah. The old "the current guy must be ok because no one on a small message board can suggest a different one who is better in my opinion" defence.

Right ho.

Statistically there are 16 better coaches just in our division.

 

[Icy Gull]

Ah. The old "the current guy must be ok because no one on a small message board can suggest a different one who is better in my opinion" defence.

Right ho.

Nope, you want Potter out, at least suggest who you might like if he was available. You/we can come up with plenty of players in any position to replace those we have. Why is it so outrageous to suggest you do the same with a manager.

As I suggested to Wozza, you haven’t even got one in mind have you?

I do think the current guy is OK as it happens but I’d really like to know who you and all the other outters might like to see get the job half way through a season.

The “size of the message board” is a fecking weak side step.

Look at any other clubs forum and at least they have suggestions about who they’d like to replace their current useless manager

 

[vagabond]

I was interested in hearing why the poster in question is on a crusade to back Potter and yet wanted the best manager we have had in the last 40 odd years out after suffering half a bad season

Feels like rehashing the same convo. It gets tiring after a while. I have a long term view of what Potter and Bloom are doing, that isn’t influenced by narrow sighted short term ism. Especially given GP kept us up last season playing brilliant football with a record points total and blooding young players.

- Hughton had taken us as far as he could
- tactically inflexible
- didn’t have faith in young players enough (you may agree/disagree, but that is clearly important to Bloom)
- played backs to the wall all out defence in nearly every game
- could barely get a shot on target away from home
- couldn’t get any points away from home
- getting demolished by Bournemouth and Cardiff at home was the final straw

I love CH but that’s the truth.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

The Josh King who scored less goals than Neal Maupay did last season? Who has a worse goals per game ratio than Maupay both over his career and in games played in the Premier League? Who hasn't yet scored a league goal this season for a Bournemouth side currently sitting third in the Championship? Who is four years older than Maupay? Who has been linked with several Premier League sides for the cost of about £15 million? Who would want a contract with substantial wages and would have little or no sell on value?

I'm not saying that Josh King is a bad striker. He is perfectly adequate and will likely score a few goals for someone. However he, and many players like him that will be suggested, are not the magic bullet. They are not going to change our season by doing the job for us that Danny Ings does for Southampton, or Jamie Vardy does for Leicester. Those type of players are very rare and you generally either find them young or you buy them for vast amounts of money. More money than we can currently afford, both in transfer fees and wages.

This is the mindset we've set in stone now. It's why we're a Championship-club-in-waiting. If not this season then next season or until that mindset gets reset. Nowt intrinsically wrong with that. We still get to go to football and the queues for the trains will be shorter. Doesn't get the owner where he wants his club to be tho eh? Oh well

 

[vagabond]

This is the mindset we've set in stone now. It's why we're a Championship-club-in-waiting. If not this season then next season or until that mindset gets reset. Nowt intrinsically wrong with that. We still get to go to football and the queues for the trains will be shorter. Doesn't get the owner where he wants his club to be tho eh? Oh well

Perhaps that’s why Tony is playing the long term game?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Perhaps that’s why Tony is playing the long term game?

For sure. But it's going to involve a helluva lot of pain in the short and medium term, always assuming his genuine intention is to stick with the project longtime

 

[Guinness Boy]

Nope, you want Potter out, at least suggest who you might like if he was available. You/we can come up with plenty of players in any position to replace those we have. Why is it so outrageous to suggest you do the same with a manager.

As I suggested to Wozza, you haven’t even got one in mind have you?

I do think the current guy is OK as it happens but I’d really like to know who you and all the other outters might like to see get the job half way through a season.

The “size of the message board” is a fecking weak side step.

Look at any other clubs forum and at least they have suggestions about who they’d like to replace their current useless manager

I put three realistic candidates on [MENTION=396]WATFORD zero[/MENTION] 's dedicated thread and of course the answers came back that none of them were actually realistic and good. It's utterly pointless. If I were to suggest Ranieri we'd never get him away from Sampdoria. If I were to suggest Steve Cooper who has done better with Swansea it would be "no PL experience". If I were to suggest Jardim who did brilliantly with younger players at Monaco and is available it would be "he'll never come / too much money". As i said there are 16 statistically better coaches just in our division but you'd have a reason not to employ every last one of them.

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

I would have thought that all of our fans are disappointed with the results under Potter this season (not last season when we recorded our record Premier League finish). Those questioning Bloom’s ability as Chairman (by demanding that Potter should have already been sacked) are the stabbers, they are diminishing in number every week now.

Let’s not confuse those who question Potter’s tactics etc with the Potter Out Campaign. I’m certainly disappointed with our finishing this season and how we have been defending set-pieces. To me, these things seem fixable under Potter’s leadership and Bloom’s long term plan.

What do I not see as fixable?

The team performance from attitude to tactics and quality in the game against Millwall with Hyypia in charge, the team was broken.

In retrospect, the 9 game winless streak at the end of 18/19. The performances against Cardiff & Bournemouth were stark and showed us how little we off as an attacking threat if Murray, Groß or Dunk’n’Duffy don’t take the one or two chances we were creating every match.

We are building a hugely resilient team. I’m so proud of them and the manager in the fight back against Wolves and how they overcame the disappointment of Newport’s last minute equaliser. The basics are there for us to be successful. We just need patience and perhaps a bit of luck (and maybe a new Striker).

I think you’re conflating a few issues here, though I don’t believe it’s intentional.

Despite what you’ve said, I believe “stabbers” is OTT, it is perfectly reasonable to have total respect for Bloom, for everything he has done and is doing, but as football fans people are still entitled to be unconvinced that the manager is not up to the task currently.
It’s interesting that you’ve highlighted the 9 game winless streak at the end of Hughton’s tenure, I’d like to know your thoughts on Potter’s 9 game winless run pre lockdown which saw us lose 3-1 to Bournemouth, draw at home with an adrift Villa and sinking Watford, lose at home to Palace. Post lockdown we won 3 games including a superb win against Arsenal, but that was another 9 game stretch, meaning we won three times in 18 games. Couple that with our 2 wins in 17 games this season and that gives you 5 wins in 35 games. Now, if you honestly do not see why people might find that quite alarming then so be it, but I’m quite sure you can see how poor that is. This downtown in form has been running for about 13 months and it’s no surprise to me that some people are getting very frustrated about it.
Regarding a resilient team, no, absolutely not, though the Wolves comeback was very good. On average we concede 19 minutes after scoring as we go into our shells and the opposition put crosses and set pieces into the box and the inevitable happens.
Regarding the number of “stabbers” diminishing every week, I’m not sure what you’re reading to believe that but I’m quite sure the numbers of people who are seriously doubting Potter is growing as every winless game passes.

 

[Weststander]

The Josh King who scored less goals than Neal Maupay did last season? Who has a worse goals per game ratio than Maupay both over his career and in games played in the Premier League? Who hasn't yet scored a league goal this season for a Bournemouth side currently sitting third in the Championship? Who is four years older than Maupay? Who has been linked with several Premier League sides for the cost of about £15 million? Who would want a contract with substantial wages and would have little or no sell on value?

I'm not saying that Josh King is a bad striker. He is perfectly adequate and will likely score a few goals for someone. However he, and many players like him that will be suggested, are not the magic bullet. They are not going to change our season by doing the job for us that Danny Ings does for Southampton, or Jamie Vardy does for Leicester. Those type of players are very rare and you generally either find them young or you buy them for vast amounts of money. More money than we can currently afford, both in transfer fees and wages.

Danny Ings was taken on a season's loan, with a view to a £20m transfer.

Whilst we do spend at that level:
Webster £22m
Maupay £20m
Trossard £18m
Jahanbakhsh £17m

Ings is reportedly paid £75k a week, Lallana £90k a week.

 

[Icy Gull]

Danny Ings was taken on a season's loan, with a view to a £20m transfer.

Whilst we do spend at that level:
Webster £22m
Maupay £20m
Trossard £18m
Jahanbakhsh £17m

Ings is reportedly paid £75k a week, Lallana £90k a week.

Lallana on 90k a week? That is looking like a very poor investment so far. I am also pretty disappointed with what he has contributed when he has played. It was a gamble that looks to have backfired. Maybe he’ll prove me wrong over the rest of the season. Fingers crossed

 

[Weststander]

Lallana on 90k a week? That is looking like a very poor investment so far. I am also pretty disappointed with what he has contributed when he has played. It was a gamble that looks to have backfired. Maybe he’ll prove me wrong over the rest of the season. Fingers crossed

Free transfers inevitably come with a higher wage.

To me he seems a class act, we're usually better when he plays. He was already going to be injury prone, sadly, TB took that calculated risk.

Radio Sussex during and after matches have repeatedly covered the bad habit of Jahanbakhsh clearly breaking GP's orders by coming inside and taking Lallana's space. So a factor to consider when Lallana isn't shining.

 

[zefarelly]

For sure. But it's going to involve a helluva lot of pain in the short and medium term, always assuming his genuine intention is to stick with the project longtime

If we go down thats it, we won't bounce back. I don't (or can't) have a problem with that but I very much doubt its in TB's little black book of financial plans for progress. I'm sure he's got a back up plan for when we do go down, it's probaby got 'sell' written in it somewhere.

 

[Stato]

This is the mindset we've set in stone now. It's why we're a Championship-club-in-waiting. If not this season then next season or until that mindset gets reset. Nowt intrinsically wrong with that. We still get to go to football and the queues for the trains will be shorter. Doesn't get the owner where he wants his club to be tho eh? Oh well

I think you've misread my post. I'm not saying that we can't afford Josh King, or someone like him. I am saying that we cannot afford a striker who could turn us from also-rans into top six contenders. We could luck into one like Leicester did when they got Vardy from Fleetwood, or like when Danny Ings didn't proved to be as crocked as his reputation suggested.

Here's last year's list of top goalscorers: https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11756515/premier-league-top-goalscorers-2019-20. Of that list, I'd guess that we and our rivals could afford Chris Wood, Timo Pukki and Troy Deeney (and Neal Maupay who already plays for us). Of the other 21, 17 play for teams that finished in the top 8 and the other four, Richarlison, Dominic Calvert Lewin, Danny Ings and Michail Antonio, were they to be available, would be wanted by clubs in the top 6. None of these strikers were signed by a team outside of the top six after proving themselves to be a reliable goalscorer at another top division side for a consistent period. The ready availability of such players is a myth.

We're punting on the lower leagues and foreign youngsters because there is a hierarchy. We do it, the dozen teams around us do it, and if anyone gets a really good one, they generally get bought by one of the teams who have the wealth of a country behind them.